I was just wondering if anyone here has seen or heard about natural emasculation in Sable bulls
my !6 year old son just got his first Sable it was a kind gesture from a local game rancher
This bull had huge 42' horns but no testicles apparently he was born that way a shriveled scrotum was present and had a penis also he never did turn black like normal bulls do, and was brownish like an immature bull or female
nevertheless was a fantastic trip and time well spent with my son

Shot a huge buffalo a few years ago and I’m still not sure if it wasn’t something between a bull and a cow.

Just shot a puku at Tondwa GMA with the same condition, Small scrotum, no testicles, thin neck and lean body.... but long horns with strange bases the guys couldn't get over. Don't know what caused it, testicles may have never descended because the scrotum was not scarred. Need Lane Easter to weigh in, he is our resident DVM...

Without seeing the actual body and performing a systematic inspection of the reproductive tract...it is impossible to say for sure what was going on...but here are some generalizations or categories you can place your animal into.

1) Did the animal have normal for sex external genitalia? This means a normal appearing penis, penile sheath, & scrotum (does not have to contain testes).

a) If the answer is no...you likely have killed a hermaphrodite or more likely a pseudohermaphrodite. These animals have external genitalia that are mixtures of female and male external reproductive anatomy. The difference between the 2 is hermaphrodites have both testes and ovaries or mixtures there of and pseudohermaphrodites have either testes or ovaries...however not normal ones. It takes microscopic examination of the glandular tissue to sort the two.

b) If the answer is yes...you probably have a male with a testicular disorder. See 2).

2) Animals with normal male looking external genitalia...sans testicles

a) the most common of these are cryptorchids...animals with testicles in which normal descent was interrupted.

- the males almost always exhibit normal secondary sex characteristics (look like a normal male) as these testicles usually produce testosterone normally.

b) animal had trauma or disease that killed both testicles. These animals will develop just like steers...have longer thinner horn growth and more feminine in appearance than typical males of the species. But, appearance varies as to when (age) the testicles stopped producing testosterone.

- speciific causes (etiology of the disease that killed the testicles) are multiple - various viral or bacterial infections at various stages of life, trauma, or possibly just atrophy - failure to develop (rare)

c) Males with benign developmental tumors of the testicles which confine them to the abdomen - specifically teratomas. Usually don’t grow or cause harm to the animal. These would likely look like animals castrated early in life...steer-like.

I do have some pictures on my phone and am trying to follow the "how to post pics" will try and post them but am battling with a bad internet connection

Lane would of course know best, but if you look at deer, elk and antelope without "balls", they continue to and can grow huge!!

Biggest "stag" muley I ever guided was 208". He was still in velvet - as is common in stags, when we shot him in late October.

When an animal is "de-balled" it usually grows larger and fatter.

I have seen de-balling done on young goats in a very "primeval" way which involves laying the hapless victim in a spread-eagled position with its nuts on a flat rock and having them pounded to pulp.

I wonder if that is where the saying "between a rock and a hard place" came from.

Ouch!

I once shot a whitetail "doe" that I estimated at 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 years old by "her" size. No fawn, so seemed like a good meat doe to take.
When I rolled "her" over to gut her, I was very surprised to find a complete set of male genitalia, albeit very small. No external female genitalia. He had hardened nubbins completely concealed by the hair on his head; smaller even than a yearling nubbin buck. No way you could tell it was in fact male unless you saw it pee or rolled it over or felt under the hair on its head.

Global warming effect or Chinese pollution

The malapai (ancient lava flow) between Carrizozo, and San Antonio New Mexico has a large population of mule deer does with full racks of antlers. It is impossible to tell from a distance what you are shooting at is a doe or buck. This is the reason the rule was put into the NM game laws that states the sex organs must be left on the skin of any deer shot.

When I lived in Carrizozo, antlers were the proof, but not today. In those days if the doe was antlered it was a legal kill. The NM wild life wardens have to report all antlered does killed, but this means nothing to the hunter other than leaving the sex organs on the hide.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
The malapai (ancient lava flow) between Carrizozo, and San Antonio New Mexico has a large population of mule deer does with full racks of antlers. It is impossible to tell from a distance what you are shooting at is a doe or buck. This is the reason the rule was put into the NM game laws that states the sex organs must be left on the skin of any deer shot.

When I lived in Carrizozo, antlers were the proof, but not today. In those days if the doe was antlered it was a legal kill. The NM wild life wardens have to report all antlered does killed, but this means nothing to the hunter other than leaving the sex organs on the hide.

Years ago I saw what I'm sure was an antlered doe in northern NM. She was alone with a fawn, which acted very much like it belonged to her. She was a respectable fork-horn and was legal at the time. I didn't shoot her because I was sure she was a doe; I hope others granted the same leniency.

FWIW, NM no longer requires external genetalia as proof of sex except on cougars and bears.

quote:

Originally posted by DesertRam:
Years ago I saw what I'm sure was an antlered doe in northern NM. She was alone with a fawn, which acted very much like it belonged to her. She was a respectable fork-horn and was legal at the time. I didn't shoot her because I was sure she was a doe; I hope others granted the same leniency.

FWIW, NM no longer requires external genetalia as proof of sex except on cougars and bears.

Good to know! It has been about 20 years since I have hunted New Mexico. I lived in El Paso TX for 30 years and hunted New Mexico every year till I moved to the Dallas /Fort Worth area back in 1982 and have only hunted NM two or three times since!

I miss hunting NM and I know the state like the back of my hand. Good hunting there!
...........................................................................

That is not unusual to see in aussie water buff. They tend to have slender faces and very long more slender horns. They call them bullocks.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bwanamrm:
Just shot a puku at Tondwa GMA with the same condition, Small scrotum, no testicles, thin neck and lean body.... but long horns with strange bases the guys couldn't get over.

Did you get a Nice sitatunga as well?

Hello Ernest... yes I did. I was quite pleased with him. Heard the Valley was pretty hot for you guys but understand you had lots of buff to look over. How did your guest fare on sitatunga?

By the way, enjoyed meeting and visiting with you at the Duplooy's. Perhaps we can catch up at one of the conventions... beers on me.

I have heard castrating buffalo in Australia so they grow very large horns is a fairly common practice in some areas. When I was there one of my clients killed an absolute giant, and it had castrated. Our outfitter was upset and said he hated the practice, and it must have gotten off one of the stations that do that to try and produce larger trophies.

I shot an antlered doe in Idaho over 30 years ago that was still on velvet in November.

Idaho regulations are "Antlered" and "Anterless"

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:
When an animal is "de-balled" it usually grows larger and fatter.

I have seen de-balling done on young goats in a very "primeval" way which involves laying the hapless victim in a spread-eagled position with its nuts on a flat rock and having them pounded to pulp.

I wonder if that is where the saying "between a rock and a hard place" came from.

You should have shot the Bastard who was doing that to the poor animal !!

I shot a huge Buffalo who had his balls torn out by Dingos I believe, in Ranching areas a few Bulls are turned into Buffalo Bullocks & shot as Bulls later !

All animals look the way they do for three reasons - their genotype or genetic makeup, their phenotype - the influence of the environment in which they grew up and live, AND their hormonal status. I'm hoping to give a seminar at the DSC show on the buffalo research project I conducting here in the KNP and I have some nice examples for show what 'hormonally' disturbed buffalo look like. I even have a video clip of a hyena ripping a buffalo bull's nuts off!!! I hope it will be found interesting.