For those who think a double rifle is only accurate at under 100 yds, or not accurate at all, I have news!



Yesterday Sun 7 March, at the anual Double Rifle Shooters Society hunt, at Camp Cooley I witnessed NE 450 No2, who posts here regularly, kill a coyote at a measured 271 yds, from a knealing possition. He not only hit this coyote at that range with the first shot, but with the coyote spinning like a whirling durbish,the first shot hitting him a little too far back, hit him with the second barrel as well, ending the affair! Gentelmen, a coyote is a very small target at 257 yds, and is not a slam dunk with a bolt rifle at that distance.



The rifle, he was useing, was a Chapuis double rifle, chambered for 9.3X74R, and mounted with a scope in QD rings, and mounts, useing his handloads.



I think this should lay aside the notion that a double rifle is no good past spitting distance, or that a double rifle cannot binefite from haveing a scope mounted for some types of hunting! You be the judge!

That makes two coyotes that our group has accounted for with double rifles. As I remember on our first hunt at Camp Cooley PWN375 swatted a coyote with his Pedersoli 45/70 double at over a hundred yards.



Glad y'all had a great hunt Mac, sorry I could not make it.

Hey Rusty, we missed you there, Hoss! Sunny took a nice Eland cow with Rays A&N 450/400 3 1/4", and Mike took a very large cow with my 9.3X74R,backed up by Perry with his 500/416 Krieghoff. It was hot, and the Eland were in the tight Yopon, and hard to approach! We didn't shoot any hogs,they were feeding at night, and going ito the yopon early, I fired only one shot, out of my 500/450 at a running hog, but missed him, and the river bottom was muddy, and hard to hunt!

Mark did himself proud with his cooking, Steaks to die for! One bad note though, Mark lost his wedding ring.

Was a good get together, and fun was had by all! we had a table full of nice doubles for everyone to handle and shoot.

The hunting of the eland was hard in the Yopon, they were spooky, and we had several stalks ruined by the wind, or other animals. We followed one group around all day before Mike got his. Both cows had very nice horns, and were long!

Long live the Double Rifle Shooter's Scociety

No wonder the place has been quiet. Y'all been having fun!

I had to go back and look at my notes and edit my origenal post! The shots were 271 yds not 257! OLD AGE IS EFFECTING MY MOMORY! Sorry about that!

475, it surer than hell wasn't quiet where we were!

KA-Boom! KA-Boom! What was that, I can't hear what you're saying. KA-Boom!

/

Alf,
I don't think Mac was avowing the virtures of the long range double rifle. Rather, an observation of what the 9.3X74R round and Chapuis rifle are capable of doing in the hands of a trained marksman such as NE450#2. I too have been witness to his shooting, and I can tell you he ain't on the SWAT Team for his good looks!

The caliper rear sights on my 450/400 3 inch go to 900, but I'm sure not going to try it at that range!

Alf,
You implied in your post that the older British doubles are not as accurate as the newer European models. How true is that and how much of that is a function of the calibers vs the guns themselves?

Alf

I liked to hear that also. When did the 9.3x74R become a modern cartridge?

Howdy Y'all!

First, wanted to thank all old members of the Double Rifle Shooters Society for the invitation, camraderie, great food and company. A better gathering I cannot imagine! I hope I can remember a small fraction of the knowledge of fine rifles that was disclosed over cocktails.

Next, I want to say that I also was extremely impressed to have witnessed and filmed (that's right, folks, we have proof!) NE450#2's 271 yard shot on Wile E. You can argue about "old" British or "new" European rifles and cartridges all you want, but that Chapuis did the job WAY out there, without initially knowing the distance to target.

If I can ever figure out how to post pictures/video, we can share with everyone. All you that were present, if you will give me your email address, I will send you some excellent pics! Thanks again to everyone.

/

I fear all my double gun buddies have been hanging out with that 45-70 crowd!

Lord I hate to turn on some of ya, but I still believe the double is for 100 yards and under...

All I can say Mac is poop happens...

Alf

Thanks, a reasonable explanation. I was curious as to how a 100 year old cartridge could be considered modern and you pulled it off.

While the Big Bore may be 100 yard rifles, the 375 FM and lower are plenty accurate out to the limit the shooter can used the sights. Brit Rifles were nominally regulated for 3" or less @ 100 yards. Not many Mausers with open sights made in that time period were too much better. How than would one be a long range rifle and the other not?

Add a scope, (but don't tell Ray), and both will still shoot close to the same at 300 yards. Close to equal at that distance.

That hunt sounds like a great time. Who you got to bribe to go along? I got a double rifle only its a 45/70 No its not 2 marlins taped together.
To bad about the weather keeping the hogs hidden. Look forward to a picture or 2.
Dean

We had a great time on the hunt. There were 10 and 1/2 double rifles present. [The 1/2 double rifle was a Blaser K-95 ]. I will post some shooting impressions on them in another post.
As to the coyote shot. We were hunting pigs so I had a 286gr Woodleigh Soft in the right bbl and a 286 Nosler Partition in the left. Both loaded with 65 gr of IMR 4831, Fed 215 primer in Norma cases. As this will be my scoped rifle in Africa I had the Leupold 2.5x8 with the Heavy Duplex set at 2.5x on the rifle. We spotted the coyote[he was chasing some deer]when he saw us he stopped. I first looked at him in my bino's to be sure he was a coyote, then adjusted my scope to 8x as I went to kneeling. I asked the others with me what they thought the range was and we all agreed it was @ 300 yards. The coyote was not quite broadside, I used the bottom post of the duplex as my aiming point and fired the first shot. When I recovered from recoil I could see the coyote was down, but he quickly got up and begain spinning around as if he was chasing his tail. I held on the spinning coyote and fired the second shot. It hit him and knocked him down. We quickly went to him and as he still showed signs of life I put a 44 mag round in his neck. The first round had hit behind the shoulder and exited,clipping the back of the lungs, the second shot hit in the rear ham and exited about the sternum. Time between first and second shots 10, seconds, I was able to keep the coyote in the scope the whole time. We came back later to "lazer" the distance.
If you have seen my previous posts you know I am an advocate of the double rifle as an excellent hunting rifle for almost all hunting. I could not have made this shot with iron sights, and I could not have done any better with a scoped bolt rifle. This is the longest shot I have made with my scoped double and it continues to illustrate to me that when fired from hunting positions that a double rifle is as "accurate" as any other type.[subject to the cartridge limitations of the rifle in question]. In other words a scoped double gives up nothing to a scoped bolt rifle [and has several advantages] of similar caliber.
I am planning to do some range work at 200 and 300 with the 9,3 and will report the results.
I just do not understand why someone who uses a scope on a bolt rifle objects to a scope on a double?

tonto
I am sure you and your 45/70 double would be more than welcome on our next hunt.

NE 450 #2
Let me know next year! Ill bring my 1/2 a double and with that blaser it would be 1 more
Its hogs and elan you guys chase?
Dean

Ol' Grampa Ray has got to be going nuts about this point. Scoped DB shooting 300+. That's nice shooting. There's something to be said about good range time and with enough practice, occasional shots like the above can and will be effective. Give us more.

NE 450 No. 2 is an extremely fine shot with any damn gun you want to put in his hands. If some SOB is holding a gun to my head and someone is called to shoot him off of me-I hope they call him. During an informal range and bull session he out shot all in attendance with not only his guns, but our individual guns as well. I couldn't decide whether I wanted to steal his 450 #2, 450/400 or that damn 9.3X74 sniper rifle. I ended up letting him get back home with all of them. He has obviously spent a great deal of time at the range with his double rifles as he handles them very smoothly, shoots them very well and has calculated loads for many differnt brands of bullets and figured out how to make different weights of bullets shoot to the same POI using the same powder charge. He and Aggie are two great guys that can tell stories and jokes to keep you laughing until your sides and face hurt.

It was one of the most enjoyable weekends I have spent hunting in a long time. It was a pleasure to sit in camp with Mac and Mark again and to get to meet 450 and Aggie. You are all fine fellows and I would be happy to have you back me or back any of you on a hunt any time.

Perry

475,
Your right, I'm sitting here saying "Jeeez, only on the internet can they make a 300 yard rifle out of a 470 and a Elephant stopper out of a 45-70"

Lets see if a 470 will shoot the average 3or 4 inches at 50 yards then that will coorelate to 32" groups at 300 yards, now that ain't bad, because the drop would be about 10 feet, so you would never know the difference!

Something about these internet airways, it seems to challange a perfectly normal thinking mans sanity. I mean I know these guys, they are intelligent people, well versed in balistics, many have hunted extensively, its just that when you mention double rifle or lately a 45-70 to them they get starry eyed and go numb from the waist up, their brain short circuits and they go into a protective mode about their armament. They will kill at the drop of a hat, and take scalps for their lodgpoles, they shrink into the cornor of their gun rooms, go into chillblains and some, in the more severe cases, even masterbate and slobber......

450 NE No2,

I too genuinely don't understand the "problem" folks are having with scoping a double rifle ... particularly one not used for dangerous game.

My 9.3x74R Chapuis is fitted with a 1.5-6x42 Schmidt and Bender rail scope on EAW twist mounts. Returns to zero very nicely. Has delivered four shot groups (two from each barrel) at an inch or so at 100 yards. Has been perfectly able to consistently zap half gallon water jugs at 150 yards.

While I wouldn't use it for DG, it has also been very good on a Buff mover at 20 to 5 yards with the scope set at 1.5x.

The opposing arguement reminds me of the purists that said optical sights on a 1911 would never work for IPSC shooting. Turned out to be just the opposite even on rapid movers. Scores shot by the same guys who shot very well with open sights just got better.

I haven't had the little Chappy very long ... just since Christmas time, but it has already accounted for a deer and a pig. It's going to Africa on a plains game hunt in May.

The idea of scoping a medium double may offend your sensibilities, but like the optically sighted 1911 it simply results in a piece having a longer practical range without losing very much if any in the speed department.

Ray, Ray, wake up buddy! This isn't a Marlin Lever action 45/70 thread!

Rusty,
It's getting very close

But all in good fun, at least I'm having fun.