Sorry folks, I know this should go in the reloading section but it seems to me the African Hunters know more specifics on the .404 Jeffery than other reloaders.

My data shows the maximum OAL as 3.53 for the .404 Jeffery, Saeed, your data posted on the sight doesn't list lengths but one of your postingss on the forum if I am remebering correctly had your .404 loads at much longer than 3.53 Being new to this chambering is there anything to gain by seating the bullet out so far other than capacity and to bring the ogive close to the rifling?

I have loaded for 4 404 Jeffery rifles. I have outseated all of them except the last one. The nice thing about the Jeffery is that the case capacity is such that you can shoot the load at 2150 f/s to 2600 f/s. even at the shorter OAL. There is no real advantage in out seating this round other than the fact that if the OAL is the length of the magazine box, there may be less bullet set back.

Thanks Square,
I suspected as much. I will start with seating at either max listed lenghts and work out from there. See what kind of groupings I get.

ib404,

Would you mind telling me who built your rifles in .404 JEFF and on what actions?

Any other information that you think of would be helpful also.

Many Thanks,

Sam
eclemmons@hotmail.com

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ALF,
thanks, so in my current action I am still limited to the length of the magazine box. So setting my depth either out or the "listed" OAL is purely a matter of preference and capability correct?

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Ja,
The original .404 Jeffery throat is zero freebore and a leade of 1+ degree angle so that it tapers down over the 0.300" that Alf has shown. Thanks Alf. No "parallel throat" at all.

Saeed is no doubt able to seat his 405 grain Walterhogs out further due to them being subcaliber with driving bands precisely machined by Walter to match the rifling to slugged out perfection, and his concentricity being Walter-perfect too.

We all know that Walter is the brains behind the operation, and just lets Saeed play the straight man to his buffoonery.

Various bullets may allow longer COL than the 3.53" depending on their ogive. The extinct 350 grain Barnes X-Bullet was one of them.

If the bullet has a crimp cannelure where needed, and the throat, ogive, box, and accuracy permit, I load as long as I can go, but it is usually a minimum departure from 3.53" in most cases, unless you have the magic Walterhog boolits.

As an aside, note that the case body taper of the .404 Jeffery is about as minimum as it gets. It has less taper than the Dakota and RUM lines of cartridges, and way less than the .416 Rigby.

It sure makes up for its lack of body taper with its "gradual" shoulder angle and long neck however.

But a .404 Jeffery Improved would be an oxymoron, eh?

RIP

I loaded some dummy rounds for my smith to use when polishing the feed ramp. I am seeting just past the cannelure to allow for crimp OAL is 5.280 just a bit short of max with the Swift A-frame 400 grain bullets. Providing I have the room in the mag box I probably could extend out these bullets to the rear cannelure and seating out to about 3.55 or 3.60.

The current crop of 404's are different than the originals. The OAL of the loaded cartridge is dependant upon the magazine box length. If you have a magazine box that is 3.6", you can out seat bullets and possibly should so as not to have bullets set back under recoil. If it is 3.34 OAL then you can open up the action and provide a box that will accomodate 3.53 OAL. Action size could determine if you outseat or not!

Mine is built on a M70 & I load to 3.59" w/ any of the bullets I have used; Hawk 350 & 400, NF 380, Woodleigh 350 & 400 & the Barnes 400 solid.

Fred,
5.59?? is that a typo?

Yeah, unless you have one of those extree long actions?

Ja,
Depends on the box length, throat length of the "modern" or custom reamer, the bullet cannelure ... a crimp sure is nice ... and the ogive of the nose of the bullet.

In My Winchester M70 with ~3.6" box it really doesn't warrant any experimentation.

In a ~3.8" box one could get complicated and use a custom throat and add a new cannelure to the bullet that allowed a +3.75" COL.

I'll have to sort that one out if I ever get the CZ 550 Magnum barreled with a 27" Lothar Walther barrel to see if I can duplicate the infamous "Atkinson Load."

However, I am back to pursuing the .375/.338 Lapua idea again. That would be an appropriate cartridge for "long seating" bullets to fill a magnum box.

It would have the same case capacity as Saeed's .375/404 (they are identical/within one grain of each other), with shorter, fatter, and more heavily constructed brass: a straight neck-up of the .338 Lapua Magnum.

The .375 Lapua has already been done by the Germans who called it the 9.5x71mm "Tornado" IIRC. Sumbuddy who know correct me if I am wrong.

quote:

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Modern crop of 404's

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??????? Pardon my ignorance but what does this statement refer to?

The "Modern" rendition of the 404 can only be referred to as one entity and that of it's "modern" registered version and that is the CIP rendition as registered as 404 Rimless NE of 14 June 1984 and revised on 15 May 2002.

This rendition is based on the original 404's as shown by the various drawings as handed down through the years and archived with the Birmingham proof house.

So in that form and it is the form Lothar Walther cuts their barrels the COL max in metric is given as 89.66mm = 3.5299 inches.

The Leed dimension of the CIP spec calls for 10.77mm = .300 inches, exactly as it was for the "original 404"

The Leed taper is in fact not actually 1 Deg as RIP points out to proper but 1 Deg 25' and 20"

( close enough I guess)

If it differs from this it is not a 404 Jeffery but some wildcat !

Alf,
Being a bit anal again, eh? Note that I said "1+" degree as I usually don't memorize degrees and minutes of leade angles, and post off the cuff, on the road in South Dakota still, but Ja, I gave you a chance to be "authoritative" again. And, yes, you are forgiven for that error on case capacities.

Any reference by lb404 to the modern variants of the .404 Jeffery would refer only to special throating, which anyone can do as they please with, and it would still be a .404 Jeffery, except to the anal retentive mind set.

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