Several of us are going to hunt Africa. I hunted the Selous in 2000, We are going to SA this time on the recommendation of a friend. I had an experience that fulfilled all of my expectations of hunting in Africa, how will hunting on 50,000 acre ranch compare. We will be staying in a ranch house instead of tented camp. The others are satisfied with the referrals we checked with for the PH.
Will I get a real hunt experience?

If the place is really 50,000 acres and the P.H. doesn't just ride around and tell you to shoot what is sighted therefrom, the answer is a "yes" you'll enjoy it, but it will be very different.

You might be surprised that when driving to the ranch that you'll be going through rural communities that you'd think were in the U.S. Doma, Dar and Arusha ain't Jo'burg... and the countryside of RSA isn't like Tanzania.

RSA has "interstate-like" highways, modern fuel stops with Whimpy's, reliable communications, power and good cell phone service in most places. It certainly is trying to become a third-world country because of race-based politics, but it hasn't sunk that far yet.

You might be on a fairly good highway and only 4 or 5 miles from the last village and then turn off the black top and suddenly be in as wild a place as you can imagine with even a few leopards around.

I like it.

The Judge is right. I've hunted both, and I prefer the Selous, hands down.

maybe just to be different i think a first timer should go the RSA route. Tanz, zambia botswana are all great places, but i really believe that going on a regular just plains game hunt in rsa or namb. is a better starting place. the next time try zambia or tanz. I think you'll have more appreciation then.

I agree with butch. Once you've hunted the Selous, with the entire spectrum of African wildlife all around you in it's natural wild state, a ranch hunt in RSA is kind of tame in comparison. I loved hunting SA, but the next inevitable step was a true safari camp in pursuit of DG.
A fair-chase hunt in the Limpopo might be a great time, if you could find one. The ranch thing just left a bad taste in my mouth. There's nothing like elephants @ 30 yards in the thick stuff!!

RSA is good for what it is, but really it might be described as Africa for beginners whereas the Selous might be described as Phd Africa.

quote:

Originally posted by jetdrvr:
The Judge is right. I've hunted both, and I prefer the Selous, hands down.

What they said.

Do whatever it takes to make a trip to the Selous.

I've been fortunate to hunt in Zim, Moz, RSA and have been to the Selous the last two trips. I've booked again for 2009. It has taken me four years to save enough to make a return trip and now, it's almost here. If you just want to "kill" something, go to RSA but if you want to really have a true African experience and actually "hunt" something, go to the Selous. I'm sure there are some other places that may be close in comparison but I've never been there...I've been spoiled.

Again, whatever it takes...you will not regret it.

Bull1

You did not mention whether the others (several) that you are going with have been to Africa before - and if so where in Africa. You did say you are going to SA so that decision is made.

If some of them have not been to Africa then SA is even more attractive because they can get a lot of game in their first trip.

The other consideration is their rifles. If they just have deer rifles obviously SA was the right choice.

It might be difficult to get "several" people their buffalo on one trip even in the Selous. Also in the Selous they are not going to have as easy a time to pick off some plains game especially if they are hunting buffalo.

So if there are new recruits in the bunch I would agree with taking them to SA and just have a good time and shoot a lot of animals.

I think the 50,000 acre property will be plenty of space to let the animals evade your friends.

kit

You guys will probably have a ball in RSA and get a lot of shooting. For you though it will be a disappointment if you are expecting anything approaching a classic safari expereince.

You do know that it is possible to do a fairly inexpensive plains game hunt in an area that is wild and has the Big 5? That to me would be the compromise and let your buddies understand what a classic safari is all about.

Mark

Go to South Africa and enjoy it.

quote:

Originally posted by bull1:
. It has taken me four years to save enough to make a return trip and now, it's almost here. If you just want to "kill" something, go to RSA but if you want to really have a true African experience and actually "hunt" something, go to the Selous.

.I've been spoiled.


Bull1

My question to you is what animals did you shoot in the selous and what species did you shoot in SA

There were 6 of us, hunting was difficult, it was early in the season, last of July, the grass was long......had not been burned yet and the ph's were not familar with the areas. We hunted 2 on 1. We hunted 10 days. We all killed buffalo, I shogt one at 3 PM on the last day of the hunt. The buff measured 44 1/4" and green scored 113. It was the largest of the 6. Other game we shot was heartebeast, impala, zebra, wildabeast, pumba. Camp was everything it was supposed to be, several complained at the lack of game we saw....enough that they offered another hunt at reduced prices. Most complaints came from someone who had been to Africa several times and was expecting to see herds and herds of animals and have a pick of what to shoot. I had a great hunt, enjoyed every minute of it(except for the tetse flys).

kit,

Without knowing any further details it sounds to me like you had an excellent hunt in the Selous particularly for July with no burning yet.

BTW 44.5" is a toad. Congrats!

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by 375 fanatic:

quote:

Originally posted by bull1:
. It has taken me four years to save enough to make a return trip and now, it's almost here. If you just want to "kill" something, go to RSA but if you want to really have a true African experience and actually "hunt" something, go to the Selous.

Bull1

My question to you is what animals did you shoot in the selous and what species did you shoot in SA

I have only hunted nyala and warthog in RSA. The nyala was in an enclosure and was not the experience I had hoped for. I should have cleared this up with my PH before the hunt started but I didn't. The warthog was neat but also in an enclosure. However, I don't think you can really contain warthogs with any real success so, that was not such a big deal. But, on the same trip, I traveled on to the Selous and took two buffalo and a zebra. On my last trip, I again took two buffalo, hartebeast, wildebeast & warthog.

I understand there are areas in RSA where the hunting is not so confined but I have honestly been spoiled with the Selous and do not intend to hunt in RSA again. Only my opinion...just honest personal feelings. These are the same reasons I don't care to hunt in Texas. Each to his own. There's plenty to go around.

Bull1

Bull1

Hi Bull
Too bad you did not enjoy your RSA hunt as much. How big were the areas you hunted and with who?

There are so many opportunities to hunt good Nyala in 12 000 acre camps and up that will give you a truly amazing, challenging and ethical hunt.
Anyone who comes from South Africa, saying that if you want to "kill" not "hunt" something you should go there, has obviously either had the hunt misrepresented to him or has not realised where he will be hunting and agreed to it.

I strongly believe that in many situations the hunting practices on a ranch in SA are far more sporting then what you might find in other countries because you can successfully conduct an entire safari on foot. No driving all day to jump out of a car and stalk a hundred yards for a shot. Better yet each time I read of a guy taking a shot from a vehicle bacause"it was the last day", just stinks to high heaven of the unsporting conduct that is considered to be OK because someone is hunting in wilderness area and had to drive extra far to get there.

Each of us as hunters has a solemn duty to other hunters to stamp out unsporting behavior and ensure that we participate in the hunt on our own terms and most certainly not based on how many trophies you have collected or how much time you have left to do so.

If you ever stop through SA again, I would dearly like the opportunity to show you one of my latest concessions that have opened up. It is a 20 000ha preserve that has varying terrain and good populations of many game species including Nyala. To give you an idea of the size the fence line is just short of 100km long. If you can hunt there even using conventional spot and stalk from a vehicle and tell me you have had an easy hunt then my friend I will eat my hat, smeared with bovril just for good measure.

I hope that everyone reading this will take the time to look beyond the numbers and species check list and invest in a hunt that will allow them the satisfaction of knowing that they have hunted hard and hunted to better themselves. Look carefully at the facts of what you are doing, as hunting unsportingly in a wilderness is as bad as any hunting you conduct in a box.

I am a conservationist before anything else and know that we need to attach a value to anything in Africa that we wish to preserve. Your hunting funds ensure preservation and will see wildlife on the African plains forever. Regardless of country or convictions we need to keep people coming to experience Africa, if this experience however is being tainted by greed and the lack of respect for hunting custom in the face of increased profit, then I say that it is time for each and every "hunter" to look very closely at himself and make sure that each of us is holding up our end of the deal.
You are the only ones that can adress this problem, as long as unscrupulous opperators are supported they will not change their ways.
Good day to you and good hunting when you next take up the chase
Ian

Very well said Vlam

My point is that you can have a great hunting experience in SA hunting a large range of plains game. If you hunt the same animals in the Selous what will it cost you im not only talking about trophy fees but day fees aswell.

In SA you dont pay DG rates to hunt PG and you are not restricted on the animals you want to hunt while you are here

by using the right operators and there is plenty of them you will have a challenging and fair hunt

Bull 1 if you think SA is only a killing Zone you've used the wrong people

Vlam PM sent

Ian and Rudi both make very good points in their posts. SA can indeed offer some very good hunting, as can Tanzania and many other places.

To me, the big difference is that Tanzania is truly and completlely wild and considerably less predictable in that you can come across anything at any time. Both countries are good but both are different and the client needs to recognise what he genuinly wants out of a hunt before deciding which country to go to.

Personally I adore the true wilderness areas and for me there's absolutely no doubt that I'd always choose those over any fenced area, no matter how big it is........... That doesn't mean one should dismiss RSA however.

I think Steve hits the nail on the head.
Recognizing what you want, and further to that what your budget can allow for. SA has opened up hunting to many who could not otherwise, but this should not be taken to the next level and turning it into a shopping list to cram 20 trophies into 10 days

Shop around, make sure you know exactly where you are hunting, how the hunt will be conducted and what your PH calls ethical hunting.

It is important to be up front with everything and to call a spade a spade. There is no room for being polite and then complaining later. If you are not happy then you say so right there and then. Dont let your own money blackmail you into accepting a compromised experience.

I read a hunt report a while back where the hunter in question tried to throw money at an already bad situation, it just got worse.
I will invite anyone who arrives in South Africa only to realize they have been duped to contact me directly, as I am 100% certain that if you are in an area that supports hunting you are never further than an hour or two from a reputable outfitter or landowner that will take good care of you and who would do their best to fix your situation ,even at their own expense, because it is the right thing to do.

Good hunting
Ian

Vlam & 375 fanatic,

I am not saying I had a "bad" experience in RSA. It just was not what I had hoped for. I got what I accepted. I'll take most of the blame for that because I did not clearly express my wishes to my PH.

That was on my third trip to Africa. I had hunted in Zim and Moz on the earlier trips and "assumed" that RSA would be similar in most respects. Admittedly, I've only seen a very small slice of RSA and I don't mean to paint the entire country with the same brush.

In no way do I mean to belittle the contributions of RSA to the overall African experience. It has probably done more than any other country to protect and reintroduce species than all the others combined.

Any hunter must be prepared to accept the hunting experience for what it is and what it means to him. If, as a hunter, you can't or fail to do that then, you need to move on or take up another hobby. I've made my decisions and others can make theirs as they see fit. That doesn't make my decision the correct one and it certainly doesn't have to carry any weight with anyone else. But, it's mine.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with hunting in RSA. I'm sure there are a lot of hunters who would rather stay in a thatched roof chalet with swimming pool, etc. And you certainly have to question the sanity of someone who would pay $2000 per day to sleep in a tent ( I know my wife does ) but, I'll plead guilty...I love it.

The world of African hunting is huge and with enough variables that any hunter can find any kind of experience he is looking for. Good luck to anyone who is fortunate enough to be able to make the trip. When you find a pair of "comfortable shoes" that fit you, wear them in good health.

Bull1

Sure, you will get a nice enjoyable hunt, but it won't be a Safari like the one you did in the Selous..It will be more on the order of hunting on a big USA ranch for elk and deer. At least I can sure tell the difference, and personally find Selous dearer to my heart.

Thanks for all of the input, I do not know what to expect from a RSA hunt. I have talked to the the people who own the ranch and 3 people who have hunted there before. All have been complimentary. Like someone said it will be like elk or deer hunting on a large ranch in Texas. I am just glad to get my buddies tgo go with me. We have shot dove, ducks and pidgeons in Argentina for the last 5 years and I enjoy the company as much as the shooting. I am sure we will enjoy the shooting in RSA and I am sure it will be different than my experience in the Selous. I will just be glad to get back to Africa. Maybe some of my budies will enjoy it as much as I do and I can get them back again and again. I don't know how many years of hunting I have left, I just want to enjoy as many as I can. As I said before I hunted 2 on 1 in the Selous. The other person I hunted with compained and professed to have a less that desirable hunt. As we were going back to camp on the last day of the hunt after I had shot my buff he asked me how I had liked my hunt. I tole him that it was everything I had hoped for, I had had a hunt of my dreams. We had hunted together every day and he was dissapointed with his hunt. At the beginning of the hunt both of our primary choices for game were the buff, we drew straws to see who shot the first buff, I drew the short straw so we hunted for his buff first, He shot it on the 8th day of the hunt we spent the first 8 days with him up for the buff. At 10:AM on the last day of the hunt I told Steve our PH to give up on the buff and lets get a couple of other things on our list that would be easier, I still wanted a Zebra and Wildebest and Mike still wanted a Zebra. I shot a Zebra just before noon, we ate a feild lunch while they caped the Zebra. After lunch we hung the Zebra in a tree for lion (there was someone coming in that was hunting lion). After the lion was hung and covered we were dragging the guts, as we drove into a clear spot we spotted a herd of buff. From there we went on foot and I shot the buff of a life time at about 4:00. We were driving back to camp as the sky changed form red to darkness when Mike asked me how I had enjoyed my hunt. Again we hunted together for 10 days, he was up for 8 of them and he had was dissapointed with his hunt and I loved mine. Imagine that!

I am sure RSA will be a good time, I hope I can get back to hunt the Selous again.

Thank all of you for your perspective.

quote:

These are the same reasons I don't care to hunt in Texas.

Check out Larry Joe and Marty Moore's operation in Uvalde. Open range hunts with a great variety of game and some very nice whitetails. You won't be disappointed.

(Sorry about going off topic, but all Texas hunting is not high fence...)

quote:

Originally posted by kit:
As I said before I hunted 2 on 1 in the Selous. The other person I hunted with compained and professed to have a less that desirable hunt.

As we were going back to camp on the last day of the hunt after I had shot my buff he asked me how I had liked my hunt. I tole him that it was everything I had hoped for, I had had a hunt of my dreams. We had hunted together every day and he was dissapointed with his hunt.

I drew the short straw so we hunted for his buff first, He shot it on the 8th day of the hunt we spent the first 8 days with him up for the buff.

We were driving back to camp as the sky changed form red to darkness when Mike asked me how I had enjoyed my hunt.

Again we hunted together for 10 days, he was up for 8 of them and he had was dissapointed with his hunt and I loved mine. Imagine that!

kit, I hope this guy is not part of your crew this time. More often it's the company, including hunting buddies, land owner or PH/Outfitter, his family & staff and anyone else involved that really determine wether a hunt is great or crappy. I'd be highly pee'd off is I got to the Selous, on what seems a highly successful hunt, only to have an overly expectant a-hole trying to get me to agree that I'm having a shitty time just like he is?!

If you're an old team of buddies that's had good value elsewhere then 50 000acres of SA is going to be just great!

Kit
All my great points here and if I can add one thing. Go to RSA with a complete open mind and not with expectations of the Selous. The expereicne in RSA will be great, just a little different. I think you will have a great time with your friends, it is just a different style of hunting, thats all.

Good Luck!

Kit
I've never been on a hunt in RSA, but I've found that as long as you go with an open mind, a light heart, and a willingness to accept what life throws your way, you will enjoy yourself. You will be with friends and hunting in a new area. How bad can it be. Go and enjoy yourself.

TerryR