What's the current and forseable situation on buying a game ranch in Namibia, Botswana, or South Africa?

In South Africa it is possible to buy a game ranch now and into the future---it requires a lot of paperwork--but it can be done. The big question is how much do you want to spend? Also in what condition do you want the place? A PH I know has recently helped someone buy a place in SA. If you would like to contact him he can be emailed at dean@adventuresafrica.co.za

hope you fine this helpful. Scott

I don't know much about buying land in Namibia but in Botswana it's pretty much a no-no for a non resident, except in Tuli Block which borders RSA. There a non resident can buy land -however it's not particularly cheap.

In South Africa it's no trouble at all for a non resident to buy property but I'd suggest you use a good lawyer to check things out for you as some places are under land claim which you obviously want to avoid........ You would also need to be cautious about surrounding areas. Ideally you should look for somewhere that is surrounded by other game reserves so that you minimise poaching risks etc.

I was told the Burchells (south africians) formed a corporation to purchase the lands they own in Namabia and that (on paper) their ranch foreman (Namabian) owned 51% of the corporation. This was not necessary but was done as a hedge against the redistribution of lands that is taking place in Namabia - slowly but shurely.

I guess I should have mentioned that when I bought my place in SA I was advised by my accountants to form a SA based company & then buy the place in the name of the company.

If owning property was feasible in Africa, I would have bought a game ranch many years ago..I would recommend against for many reasons that I won't go into..I have learned that when some of you get on this kick, all you want is a positive answer as that is what you want in life...but the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence...

My advise is approach this very carefully..unless you intend to live on it year around..

Bottom line with me and I have about done this several times, is don't do it...at least not yet...

I wouldn't disagree with Ray's comments - but I would add to them by saying some countries are safer than others for (large block) land purchases.(IMO) the best & least risky area/country to buy in would be Tuli Block Botswana. - at least for me it has more of the "old Africa" feel than RSA or other southern African countries.....

From a professional perspective, I recommend hunting in Africa for the fun and adventure of it, but that you keep any real estate investment money that you have at your disposal right here, in the good ol' U.S of A.......

AD

Since both Namibia and South Africa have tipped their hands and indicated that a modified Zimbabwe-style Marxist land seizure may be coming up, I cannot imagine considering investing in real estate in either country. Unless you can afford to lose the entirety of the investment and still walk away happy.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
Since both Namibia and South Africa have tipped their hands and indicated that a modified Zimbabwe-style Marxist land seizure may be coming up, I cannot imagine considering investing in real estate in either country. Unless you can afford to lose the entirety of the investment and still walk away happy.

I think 500grains has both eyes open. The land grab has already started in Namibia.

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
What's the current and forseable situation on buying a game ranch in Namibia, Botswana, or South Africa?

Actually in SA per se it is not a problem BUT like anything in life, you FIRST need to look around meet and talk to the right people and get CLOSE to a local resident whom you can trust ///

Yes (there are land claims) all over the show BUT like all these things some are genuine some are frivilious and in a vast number of cases they will take many many yesrs to get to court (if even in some cases) so dont be put off by the perception, investigate further

There are some (good or very good opportunities) around especially for those wanting to purchase in USA dollars / Euro / UK Pounds etc and of course some not so good deals, as I say, work in with someone trustworthy.

The residence thing can be overcome without too much hassle, there is more than one way to skin a cat so to speak, including sharholder arrangements and other.

Dont expect to make money from hunting per se if that is your goal, at least not in the short or medium term unless you have a PRIME RANCH with a lot of game animals and a captive and robust clientele on your books.

Hunting Safaris are a hard intensive business BUT if you are after a lifestyle choice LOVE AFRICA want to get out the traffic and rat race and you are NOT SHORT of finances then it is hard to better.

A good idea if you want to seriously consider a purchase is to have a (local person or Outfitter ) help you run the ship for a contractual 4-6 month period at least so you can bed yourself in with local nuances and things that an outsider might not be aware of

DONT listen to those who always say NO ... first investigate YOURSELF talk to others in the industry and then make your own mind up as too many people flinch when faced with a challenge. That is why the big respected operators are still in business, they have a good product good advice good staff and they have the will power to succeed

WE personally have bought and operate three private ranches isn SA & Zambia and we have shareholder operations as well, so YES it can be done with the will to do it. With a family operation our resources are well stretched and we are always open to a sale consideration ourselves, at least on one of the properties as when one owns a ranch all the capitol is tied up in the land and with retirement well nigh some working capitol is welcome

All questions welcome.

Peter

Why the H*ll buy the cow when milk is so cheap!

I am retiring from the Military in 7 years. I want my retirement to go alot farther than it will in Wyoming, Montana, or Alaska.

How will AIDS change the future of Africa?

Thank Peter, read my post on what will happen to Africa.

I keep seeing 10,000 hectare ranches in Namibia for well under $600,000 US. I could make a place like that work, and enjoy Africa daily.

I am not looking for a free deal. I was raised on a Ranch in Wyoming. I know livestock, hunting, and have had a leadership job for 12 years. I can make it work, if it's do-able.

The best part is I will be 41 years old and continue to own my apartment complex in the states.

Why not consider buying a holiday home on a secure estate somewhere in Africa? - Then you would have the security of not having to worry about things like crime & land claims etc and you can then travel and hunt from your African base.

Might, not my style. I don't know how I am going to react to this "roots" concept for the rest of my life.

It's been pretty exciting, wars, moving, travel, hunting, guns. Not sure what I am going to do in eek retirement.

If my goal was to stretch out the best lifestyle on a fixed retirement I'd buy a place in Mexico and use all the saved money to hunt Africa. US companies are now guaranteeing title in Mexico so the financial risk is gone.

Mexico, me thinks not! No gun ownership, no shooting, no thanks.

yo habla Espanol. Yo casa en Mexico, no gracias, yo no mi gusta sin rifle y escopetas y pistolas!

For those whom are scared of Africa with Aids crime SUN SHINE ( beautiful starfilled night skies ) sunsets like heaven, camfires with the music of nighlife to sooth your ears, and the vibrance and excitment of the hunt them be warned, dont consider it ... Where the hell can you retire in comfort in this world with the new face of terror and uncertainty ////

Dont tell me the USA is a totally safe place to live OR with nice clear skies without pollution from millions upon millions of cars and taxes rat races and wars to fight I can go on and on //

In fact there are not many places left in the world that are idillic to retire in ( unless you are affluent )

NZ is one of the most sort after least crime clean green lifestyles around, it has outdoor themes and hunting as well so if someone is scared of Africa then NZ is a very good option, believe me, and a lot of wealthy Americans are migrating here to get away from it all so to speak ///

And as I say if money is not a problem then Africa still ( by world standards ) provided you like the outdoors is very very hard to beat

Peter

Thanks again Peter,

I am with you 100%

Nothing like those sunlit plains, starry nights, and hyaena cries.

I and a friend who is a South African PH once estimated buying a game ranch with good "stock" populations only had a "pay-back" period of five to six years.

I wonder who is right, his actual numbers or the nay-sayers?

Future land confiscations are a big thing of course. Never trust a black African leader with his hand perpetually in the cash-box. Stealing is a way of life.

One thing about these properties, if you and any partners plan to do a lot of hunting yourself, you are shooting the profits and any good trophies away from clients.

South Africa has a lot of very nice countryside but the Limpopo / Northern Provinces thick thorn bush mis-managed veldt doesn't do much for me at all. It is rather dull and featureless. Without the game animals it would aweful. To fix the decades of un-necessary burn-offs and over grazing by cattle would take a hell of a lot of work and resources.

Obviously a lot depends on the structure of the financing of the purchase & marketing methods etc but I'd be very suprised indeed if it were possible to achieve a payback period of 5 years. Even without any interest charges the cost of responsible veld & game management, vehicle purchases and maintenance and marketing the area from scratch would (to me) mean considerably longer than 5 years before you could expect to see any serious return on your money......but I'd be very interested to hear what Peter Bird's opinion is on this. I'd guess he's a lot more experience on this subject than anyone else here......

If I was going to pick an area in RSA to look for property it would be KZN somewhere as it's just sooooo beautiful.

Steve you are essentially correct ///

If you are very fortunate I was say 10+ yesrs might be the break even point if you dont sell the property in the interum ...

As I might have said in one of my earlier posts in this thread essentially you are buying a LIFESTYLE not a cash cow BUT having said that if you were to get a real bargin of a lifetime and PROVIDED you had a never ending stream of clients coming year in year out then YES it will be a profit machine much quicker

My family USE their SA ranches as a HOME combined with hunting operation and do a handful of hunts per season to keep everyone on their toes so to speak BUT it is not the lifeblood of their existance ...

My brother has another unrelated retail operation to pay the bills and the kids enjoy the ranch the clients and the lifestyle ...

Like a lot of PROPERETY DEALS the profit actually comes when it is time to sell as land can tie up quite a bit of money and to service the debts can be a big struggle unless there are affluent shareholders ///

Yuu also need to be a (free radical) without worrying too much about making money but one whom enjoys the company of outdoors like minded people

Essentially life can pass you by so follow your dreams as in the blink of an eye you can be here today gone tomorrow ...

I hear toooooo many stories of those good people but whom are IMHO misguided whom work their fingers to the bone never take a risk and drop dead when they retire ... Nothing was ever achieved by just admiring what others have done, do it and enjoy the challenge, hell the worst that can happen is you end up broke

Peter

Peter,

I agree with you on all points - a large expense when starting a new enterprise such as the one we're discussing is getting the clients to come in the first place and that really is a major expense. Once you've sent the first years worth of clients home happy it begins to get a little easier.

I also agree with you about how precious life is. I've seen so many of my own friends check out early and before they've found the time to have fun. It's no use being the richest man in the graveyard - much better to be the poorest but happiest man in the playground........

Why buy bits and pieces, lets pool our money and buy the whole dam thing from c.a.e. south. Charlie

Ten years ago, a small group of American fellows, bought 49 per cent of a small ranch in Limpopo Province. Among them was one of our members, btw. It is my understanding that when he sold his shares, he got all him money back and (though not always used), he had numerous opportunites to hunt at "cost".

I also know several of the "members" who have stayed with the program and the "new" member, too. The ranch has supported a resident PH and his family, has bought (and built) nicer accomidations, etc.

The original investment was $20K per share, I believe.

I didn't buy shares for several reasons. First, I don't have $20K to spare. Secondly, "owning" some of Africa isn't my deal (unless I own a ranch by myself). Finally, the figures just don't work as a reasonable return on investment, even if you figure out the "free" hunting included... but...

My buddy who lives here uses it as a great tax deal to take clients. I works great for him.

I'm sure there are other deals like the above for partial shares... great for someone who just wants to say he owns property in Africa.. or can figure out some tax deal???

quote:

Originally posted by Balla Balla:
... If you are very fortunate I was say 10+ yesrs might be the break even point ...

True enough, a wise rule is to double what you think it might take.

Steve,

Kwa-Zulu Natal does sound nice but never been there. Was a plan once upon a time in 1986. But one day ...

That's sound advice across the board. Steve, Judge, Peter,

Thanks again,

D99:

I looked and am looking into this extensively. As an aside on an above post, and I am not up on current Mexican gun laws, but you can almost certainly have guns in Mexico easier than in South Africa AS A RESIDENT.

In addition, you CAN NOT hunt on your own place without a PH as I understand it. In fact, you would almost certainly have to have some kind of manager who often has a PH license but it is another problem to consider. As I mentioned above, having your own guns on your own ranch in RSA is not very easy as a non-resident or resident alien.

All that said, IF, and this is a big if, the dollar goes above 10 rand again, then I will likely buy a place there, if I have the money at that time.

I kind of fell in love with a spot that I could have bt for about 4mm Rand or about $500,000 a couple of years back. Now it is 6mmRand or about $900,000 at current exchange rates.

Let me point out that committing all or nearly all of your resources to a property in RSA is NOT a very wise investment strategy. I feel the same about Mexico.

I know nothing about the current real estate situation there, so this might be completely off the mark, but if I was really going to buy a working ranch type property of significant size anywhere in the world TODAY (Besides in Texas, of course ) I would look at Argentina Uruguay, or possibly Brazil because of the current exchange rate and the economic problems. Some of the prettiest country in the world is in southern Chile as well.

My brothers private ranch in Limpopo Province
Moved to new thread

Peter

Although I haven't been there for a while, I'd certainly recommend it. It has to be one of the best places I've ever hunted for Kudu esp.

If anyone needs to know more just send me an e-mail - but make it quick because I'm off to Tanzania very soon and won't be back for a loooong time.