Folks,

What's the need for a "stopper" rifle ... which I assume is .458 WM or Lott and larger ... when hunting Buf and the like?

Given the presence of a PH, isn't .416 Rigby or the like sufficient for the average hunter?

thanks,

Mike,

A "stopper" is a rifle that can end the fight right now. A hunter can generally use a .375 and up, but your PH will usually have a .450" bore and up.

A lot of the folks on AR enjoy shooting "stoppers". Most hunters would be better served by say a .375 or .400 that they can learn to shoot well.

So need "no", want "yes".

jim dodd

Mike,

When hunting dangerous game, one should use the biggest caliber they shoot well.

For some, it's the .375, for others a .416 and for others a .458 (or larger).

The PH won't always be in the correct position or make a stopping shot. One should arm himself with best "stopping" rifle that he can handle. One well placed shot (spine or brain) from a .375 beats a bunch of poorly placed shots from a .458.

Just my opinion.

Regards,

Terry

Yes, more than adequate. To use more power, as a visting hunter, is not for everyone and well it isn't. Some people want to prove something, in one way or another. Some self-reliant types, wish to be ready for something that may never happen. Still others, wish to gain experience with as many calibers as possible, in effort to round out their "hands on" knowledge. I fall into this latter catagory but I would not argue that power selected must be weighed against one's ability to place his shots. Once a certain level is reached, with each step up in recoil, one is rendered just that much less deft, in one's ability to manipulate the rifle.

IMHO, the .375 / .404 / .416 class of cartridges is, by far, the best area of choice for the visiting hunter.

[ 05-05-2003, 20:57: Message edited by: Nickudu ]

One hunter's opinion as told to me, based on hunting buff in tall grass, where you may be out of sight of your PH from time to time, was: "The buffalo doesn't know which is the client and which is the PH when he charges. You may have to face him alone." Food for thought. As others have said, take the biggest gun you can handle quickly and accurately under stress. Misses don't help, and bad hits only make the situation worse.

If yu are willing to risk your life on the shooting ability, courage and presence of a man you met a week before than don't worry about a 'stopper'. THE most important aspect though is that you can shoot the rifle well, no matter what cartridge you choose.

the biggest rifle you can shoot well, at 50, 25, and 10 yards... it should point like a shotgun...

think ... look at target at 50 yards, close your eyes, bring rifle to bear, open your eyes... the sights should be, at least, ON PAPER, everytime.

hitting the target is just practice, but the gun should HIT YOU just about ready to fire...

oh, and my personal petpeeve... whatever you take hunting, make damn certain they have the same safeties.... simba aint gunna take "sh!T, i am fummbling with the safety"

jeffe

I certainly have to agree with Slngster.

Jim

If I am ever in a "stopper" situation I would want a double rifle. To be sure of an instant stopping shot you must hit the CNS [central nervous system]. For adequate power with minimal recoil I say one of the 450/400 Nitro's is the best choice. [400gr solid at @2125fps].
Anything above that, well handled, is icing on the cake.

A "stopper" is what keeps water in the tub!!

A 375 or 416 solid in the brain is a good receipt for killing agressive animals.

Once a Buffalo is wounded, caliber makes little difference..I know personally of 3 instances wherein Buffalo took 9 to 13 shots from "stopping calibers" 458, 470, and 500, in these cases before expiring....so what does that tell us???

It tells us that we should make the FIRST SHOT count and the hunt is over and pictures are in order...

If a charge occurs then again a well placed shot to the brain or spine is the answer, regardless of the caliber...I will happyly stand a charge with my 416 or 404 with any animal.

I might add that on survey the 458 Win was first and the 375 was second with PH's for back up guns, the rest of the calibers were far behind these two...I don't know if that means squat, but it is a fact!

Since when did the .416 Rigby or the .404 stop being a "stopper"? Historically, the .404 was the issue "stopper" for many game departments???

Ray,

The only thing that that means is those are the calibers the PH's bought cheap off of someone or got as a gift from a client.

The guy I was hunting with last year has a 450 Ackeley, but only because the rifle maker almost gave it to him and allowed him several years to pay it off. Most of the rest are shooting off-the-shelf stuff, 375's, 416's, or 458's.

There is the unknown and variable percentage of success of being able to knock a DG down with a big gun without killing it, but as you say the only sure way is to spine it or brain it.

Bill Stewart

Will,
I suspect thats correct. Just being a PH does not make one an expert on killing power or gun knowledge..I have known more than a few PH's that could not shoot for flip and some that had very little knowledge of balistics, some of these guys were excellent hunters and fantastics guides btw...PH's are good, bad and indifferent, just like everybody else...Most Zimbabwe PH's seem to have a good handle on things.

BTW our good friend and PH Mr. BVH was about the worst shot I have ever known, He carried that beatifull double and bent the triggers every time he shot it, he had a world class flinch.

Ray,

I would love to have that William Evans. Oh, well. I don't even my double anymore. It went to pay for that damn lion!

Every PH that I have hunted with that didn't have a double wished they did. Either didn't have the money or didn't want to part with it.

Hey, that sounds like me. Really good beer tastes, but homemade iced tea budget!

Bill

Choose the .510 Wells !!
That will definitely kick some f"&# ASS !!