I shot a forest elephant in a swamp a number of years ago. I was behind it and shot through the chest and into the neck. It fell immediately, like a brain shot. My pygmy tracker then ran up to the elephant and put the muzzle of the 12 gauge shotgun I use for duikers up to the leg of the elephant and pulled the trigger. I was shocked by his action, and even more shocked that the burst of birdshot at 3" did not get through the skin!! He claimed after he was trying to break it’s leg in case it got up! No, I would be hesitant to use a shotgun on elephant.
Camshaft.

quote:

Mac,

For the sake of accuracy, Teddy's double was a Holland & Holland 500/450 3 1/4" double not a 500/465 3 1/4".

HEre is Roosevelt's H&H:

http://www.nrvoutdoors.com/TR/TRBIGSTICK.htm

I pipe in gents. Way back then in Eastern Europe we used shotguns with lead slugs for big game.
Given opportunity, I would chance good hard slug on elephant heart shot ( 12 gauge 3") . Those things are pretty powerful. Sure it wouldn't drop him right away, but lots of big calibers not placed right will not do either.
Still think it will kill elephant. Gimme a chance and I"ll take it. As simple as that. Can't be any worse then garage openers ( compounds ).
And you can call me anything you want...
Love you all fellow hunters
Milan.

I only use a shot gun on elephant if they are scaled, bobwhite, or white wing. And then only if I have a good elephant pointing and retrieving dog with me.

NO.

Not on purpose...

However, when the wife and I were hunting birds in the SAVE with our Sauer Drillings I did carry a few Brenneke slugs, I thought they might just turn an elephant in a charge, or a cape buff or a lion...

I was also carrying my FA 475 Revolver, and I DO know it will penetrate an elephants skull into the brain... And kill anything else on the Planet, well handled of course...

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:

quote:

Mac,

For the sake of accuracy, Teddy's double was a Holland & Holland 500/450 3 1/4" double not a 500/465 3 1/4".

HEre is Roosevelt's H&H:

http://www.nrvoutdoors.com/TR/TRBIGSTICK.htm

Baxter you are correct, and I should have remembered that, because back in the 1990s The shot show was in the Dallas convention center, and that rifle was on display there. I was lucky enough to handle this rifle and was told by the guy in the booth that it was about to be auctioned off if I was interested. No way I could have even made the opening reserve bid, but was glad to have touched that rifle! the guy then told me they were thinking about selling tickets for a drawing with the winner being taken to a local range a be allowed to shoot a few rounds with that rifle. To that I WAS interested, but they decided to not do the drawing. That would have been a real experience I would have loved!

.........................................................................

actually i have. some years back with #4 shot trying to keep them out of crops. Didn't work particularly well

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
actually i have. some years back with #4 shot trying to keep them out of crops. Didn't work particularly well

Use the rock salt loads. that should get them moving.

TR’s rifle is now on display at the Frazier International History Museum in Louisville, KY, the centerpiece of a fabulous assemblage of artifacts focused on American and British arms of the Colonial to modern period. In addition to the collection of guns from the frontier and western eras on this continent, one floor houses a stunning array of weapons from Britain, a collaborative effort with the Royal Armouries in Leeds. The Frazier is one of the premier arms museums in this country and for anyone with an interest in history and the role arms played in this nation’s development, a visit there is an absolute must.

Worth a day the museum.

http://www.fraziermuseum.org/exhibitions/

There is also a "possible" George Washington flintlock there, made by John P. Beck, still working on the provenance, it is at least a copy of the rifle made by Beck and given to Washington. It is a Beck original anyway. Beck may have made a matched pair.

Best shot placement on elephant with most shotguns (push muzzle as far up in there as possible before pulling the trigger) is shown here:



Any shot placement you want (from outside the elephant) works if you have a 12 Gauge From Hell 3.85" rifled slug gun with +1000-grain brass or copper monometal FN slugs at 2000 fps:



The 1400-grain cast-lead "Darwin" slugs at 1800 fps might be too soft:





I designed the cast-lead "Darwin Natural Selector Slug" aka "Darwin-Award-Winning Slug" for use in the 12GaFH that Robgunbuilder and Ed Hubel developed.




Rob modified the "Darwin" design (one extra band in middle) and made them in copper, brass, and aluminum.

He also has a 2000-grain 12Ga "bore-rider" that his "shotgun" will push along at 1650 fps:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Butch made up two .600 nitro double rifles for the second Jurassic Park film. I believe I have a photo of one in my book.

As to elephant with a shotgun, yes if a 4-bore with a ball and 14-16 drams of powder!
Cheers,
Cal

The 600 is shown in the third movie.

In the second they had what looked like Barret 50 Browing.

Which did not do much good if I remember rightly.

They just landed on the island, and one man left the plane with one of these rifles.

There some shots fired, while the rest of the people got into the plane.

As the plane was taking off, the man appears from the bush minus his rifle, bloodied.

A TRex appeared and ate him

Saeed, you've got the order of the movies mixed up. The third one is where the boy goes para-sailing with his mom's boyfriend. Once the boat the para-sail is attached to crashes and the boy and his mom's boyfriend land on Isla Sorna a group of mercenaries is hired by the boys concerned parents. One of them carries a 50 cal.

"Jurrasic Park II; the Lost World," is the one with Roland Tembo (love the Swahili snuck into the last name, BTW), the big game hunter who carries a Searcy 600 NE. The Vince Vaughen eco-nazi character pulls the bullets from the casings and robs us of seeing what a frontal shot on T-rex from a 600 NE would do.

I remember an article in the SCI magazine way back saying that there was a prop gun in addition to the real thing. The prop gun would stand in until the scene was about to be filmed, then the heavier real rifle would be swapped in. At the time, Butch still owned the prop rifle (and got a kick out of tossing it to unsuspecting people looking at his booth at the convention).



If you all haven't seen this website, www.imfdb.org , you all might enjoy it. It's the "International Movie Firearms Database."

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Any shot placement you want (from outside the elephant) works if you have a 12 Gauge From Hell 3.85" rifled slug gun with +1000-grain brass or copper monometal FN slugs at 2000 fps:



The 1400-grain cast-lead "Darwin" slugs at 1800 fps might be too soft:

Sorry but once you employ cartridges and bullets like these above pushing the bullets to 2000 fps, the firearm that can handle this, though technically still a shotgun, IMO it ceases to be a shotgun but in fact becomes a smooth bore rifle. You'd need a hunting car just to carry the ammo for that thing!

.....................................................................

Minor technical issue Mac: It is a not a "smooth bore rifle," it is a fully-rifled-bore shotgun, a slug gun,
whether Rob's Borchardt or my NEF-er from H&R.
NEF-er has 24" barrel, .729" groove, .719" land/bore, 1:35" TWIST:



The Vais Brake adds a pound of weigh and 4" to overall length when installed.
A golf ball launcher serves as muzzle cap to protect the threads when switching brake between the two shotguns.
Each of the shotguns weigh about 12.5 lbs with scope, muzzle brake, sling, and slip-on recoil pad.
If you load it with one round of ammo it only gains another 1/3 pound.
A couple mercury recoil tubes in the butt, or some lead in the butt, could add another 1.25 to 1.5 pounds.
At just over 14 pounds fully loaded and weighted, and braked, it would be perfect for shooting,
not so perfect for carrying.



3 rounds of ammo is one pound, when loaded with No-Bozo Brass Darwins.
The .729-caliber brass slugs weigh 1088 grains.
The lead-tin-antimony alloy cast slugs are under 1400 grains.
This will not be too much of a burden for the hunter.
It would be a good idea to have a gunbearer accompany you and split this pair of elephant shotguns, and the ammo, between you.
Or two gunbearers, one for each shotgun and all three of you carrying ammo.
No need for a bakkie or ATV just for the ammo.

Bring some golf balls and blank shotgun shell loads too if you get a chance to use the golf ball launcher/muzzle weight,
for low-recoil headshots on guinea fowl for the pot.



This launcher prefers "Titleist" projectiles. Some cheaper balls are too big to fit the launcher.
The perfect caliber, about 1.675" diameter golf ball, in a 1.695" bore with .010" patch is sweet.
Weight of golf ball preferred is 707 grains, without grass stains, a tenth-pounder ball.



Heck, use a "light load" 12 gauge 3" turkey load to launch the Titleist.
If you miss the headshot with the golf ball, the rifling (and golf ball) will scatter the shot enough to save some meat for the pot.

In the proper gun, with the proper load, the 12Ga-FH-3.85", a mere shotgun, puts the 700 Nitro Express 3.5" to shame,
even though it does well enough at that all by its lonesome.

Man RIP that is some piece of ordinance!

How many ear plugs does the PH have to wear?

...................................................................

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
Man RIP that is some piece of ordinance!

How many ear plugs does the PH have to wear?

Mac,
Depends on how many ears the PH has. One for each ear.
Plugs and muffs for me.

Seriously, I shall make allowances for a PH who is not deaf and wants to preserve what hearing he has left:

I will go ahead and install two mercury recoil reducers in the butt of the one with the 1.25-pound golf ball launcher on the muzzle end.
Should balance perfectly then, and the golf ball launcher will project more of the muzzle blast in a forward direction, toward target.
That will make it softer on the ears of the PH, and it might frighten the elephant into a heart attack.

Q: "Would you shoot an elephant with a shotgun?"
A: Depends on whether that elephant was pointing his shotgun at me or not.

I just hope I never have to shoot an elephant in my pajamas, like Grouch Marx did.
How the elephant got into Groucho's pajamas one morning has never been determined.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
Man RIP that is some piece of ordinance!

How many ear plugs does the PH have to wear?

Mac,
Depends on how many ears the PH has. One for each ear.
Plugs and muffs for me.

Seriously, I shall make allowances for a PH who is not deaf and wants to preserve what hearing he has left:

I will go ahead and install two mercury recoil reducers in the butt of the one with the 1.25-pound golf ball launcher on the muzzle end.
Should balance perfectly then, and the golf ball launcher will project more of the muzzle blast in a forward direction, toward target.
That will make it softer on the ears of the PH, and it might frighten the elephant into a heart attack.

Q: "Would you shoot an elephant with a shotgun?"
A: Depends on whether that elephant was pointing his shotgun at me or not.

I just hope I never have to shoot an elephant in my pajamas, like Grouch Marx did.
How the elephant got into Groucho's pajamas one morning has never been determined.

..............................................................Good post RIP!

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:


[url=http://s770.photobucket.com/user/Ron395/media/12Ga/elephantiarrhea_zpsd1e81229.png.html]

Sheesh! and I thought I had shitty job!!

I actually had to ponder this dilemma once upon a time in the Selous. The gari was broken down, so we went walking along the river looking for targets of opportunity.

Upon coming across a flock of guineas, I passed my rifle to the tracker and took the camp shotgun. As guineas are wont to do, they ran and didn't want to fly, so I gave chase. After a rather prolonged pursuit, I broke out into a little vlei. A little vlei with a little elephant calf and a not so little elephant cow. I was pondering my options when she tucked her trunk under her calf's tail and guided it out of the clearing.

That was the end of that day's adventures.