I'll be hunting a trophy bull in Malapati this coming fall with SSG Safaris. I was planning on using my Ruger RMS in 416 Rigby. I love the rifle and shoot it well.

But, I'm intrigued with using a double rifle on this once in a lifetime elephant hunt. I can't afford a double in a "proper" elephant caliber, but could possibly purchase a Chapuis in 9.3x74R.

Please give me your guidance.

Stick with the 416.
1. It's plenty big enough (if you put it in the right place)
2. You shoot well with it (so your more likely to put it in the right place)

Do you want someone to tell you to buy that double? Oh Hell go for it!

Nice "problem" to have.....

If you shoot the 416 well, you will shoot the 9.3x74R well.

To me, a "Once in a lifetime" ele hunt just screams double rifle.

Enjoy your "problem" and good luck on your hunt

quote:

Originally posted by R.Jolly:
Stick with the 416.
1. It's plenty big enough (if you put it in the right place)
2. You shoot well with it (so your more likely to put it in the right place)

Well said...DITTO.

If you want to hunt your elephant with a double, do not go down in caliber from the range you are in with the bolt gun.

You are usually better off with the platform with which you have the most experience. If you can handle a double (in a comparable caliber) with the same degree of expertise under pressure then take one.

Just my worthless opinion based on limted experience. Ask Will what he thinks. He may suggest a single-trigger double , but I think he will vote for the heavier bolt gun.

Scott,
I've only shot three elephant but all of them with the .416 Rigby... and PHs like Buzz Charlton carry them as their primary rifle for a reason. I agree with the conventional wisdom that says "stick with what you know". And Charles is right, going to a 9.3 is actually a downgrade from a 400 grain solid to a 286 grain solid unless you handload! Take the old girl and make some new memories with her... unless you need an excuse for a new double.

Scott,

I believe Will took a 9.3 double to Zim a couple of years ago to hunt elephant. His conclusion was that it was a nice rifle to carry all day, but it was not enough for elephant.

I would rather hunt elephant (or anything for that matter), with a rifle like the .416 that I have confidence in, than take a chance on being under gunned or ill-prepared with a new rifle that wasn't thoroughly tested.

Hell yes, buy the double. It's an international law that you MUST buy a double rifle for an elephant hunt!
When you are there however, shoot him with the 416, you already shoot it well and you don't want to screw up a once in a lifetime shot.

TerryR

I say buy the double, but go with a 470 NE caliber. When you are done with the hunt, and if you can ever part with the rifle, the 470 NE will bring a better used value.

Me, I would never sell my double if it bagged an Ele.

Regards.. PAH

Use the .416 it is plenty. Remeber what i told you about your instructions to Nixon though...

If you get into a situation where you must take a 50 yard shot on trophy bull that is late in the day or very early in the morning, you will be glad to use the scope on your 416.

SBT, if I were you - of the two rifles you mention - I would definitely use the .416.

Love the Chapuis.

Could do the job with solids placed well in the brain were it a legal option in the area.

Still, I must concur I'd prefer a larger calibre.

Sent you a PM about an available .470 rifle. (Not mine)

I have hunted with my 9,3x74R Chapuis quite a bit. It is one of my most favorite hunting rifles.

I have taken cape buff and elephant with it.

Both with one shot. However I do consider it light for elephant.

If you are buying a double for elephant, I would recommend a 450/400 or bigger.

Sad thing is, the bigger doubles do cost a fair amount more than a 9,3.

I have used my big bore doubles for deer, wild pigs, black bear, caribou, and even coyote.
So you can hunt with them here and have a lot of fun.

But, because I like hunting with double rifles, and I like to get close to the elephants, I would rather hunt with a double 9,3x74R, than a bolt ANYTHING.

For the first shot, I would use ONLY brain shots with the 9,3.

I would also instruct the PH to follow up, IF I had fired my 2 shots and the elephant was not down, and was able to run off.

SBT,

I have only shot 3 elephants, 2 with a 470NE Merkel and 1 with a 416 Rem. All were fun. I think the 9.3 may be a little small for ele and if anything goes wrong your PH might end up shooting your ele.

I no longer have my 470 as it was bought to shoot elephant and after I had shot 2 ele and a couple of buff with it I sold it.

So I think a good option would be to buy a 470 such as a Merkel at the right price and sell it after the hunt. You may lose a little money but I would guess not that much. Plus you would get to shoot your elephant with a big bore double.

BigB

Only 2 ele. 416 is my weapon of choice. If you shoot it well you have your answer.

quote:

Originally posted by TANZ-PH:

quote:

Originally posted by R.Jolly:
Stick with the 416.
1. It's plenty big enough (if you put it in the right place)
2. You shoot well with it (so your more likely to put it in the right place)

Well said...DITTO.

Tritto(?). Not even close in my mind. I have heard stories from PHs about experiences of folks trying to use 9.3x74Rs on elephant, not good.

416 Rigby will work fine. For that matter 375 H&H will work fine, however you have the perfect excuse to buy a double. I know of no one that has said, "I wish I didn't own a double".
Go gettem elephant hunter.

Ive seen it dozens of times on the outdoor channel, Hunter shoots elephant with a rifle he isnt familiar with. He blows the brain shot and his PH kills his elephant. So you flew 10,000 miles and spent 40 grand to watch someone else kill your elephant. Use the rigby and shoot him in the shoulder that way he is yours no matter how many time the PH shoots him.

Scott,

Listen to gunny's sage advise. Use what you know. AND you have beat yourself to death looking for that cheap ele hunt. Now you've found it and you want to buy a double just for the hunt??? PLEASE!!!!

Mark

Stop and think...

- Use the .416, good gun, you know it, you'll use it well, you'll get your ele, that's the ultimate goal.

- Use the money you'd have spent on the 9.3 to do more African hunting while you're there.

- You can always buy a double later.

- You can't buy the hunting you've not done later.

What you do is much more important than what you do it with...

Yes, agreed with all of the above - use what you know best. But buy the double anyhow!

Dave

Buy another ele and shoot one with a double and one with the 416.Problem solved

Hands down stick with your Ruger RSM in .416 Rigby! You are way ahad of the game with this rifle cartridge combination.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
I have hunted with my 9,3x74R Chapuis quite a bit. It is one of my most favorite hunting rifles.

I have taken cape buff and elephant with it.

Both with one shot. However I do consider it light for elephant.

If you are buying a double for elephant, I would recommend a 450/400 or bigger.

Sad thing is, the bigger doubles do cost a fair amount more than a 9,3.

I have used my big bore doubles for deer, wild pigs, black bear, caribou, and even coyote.
So you can hunt with them here and have a lot of fun.

But, because I like hunting with double rifles, and I like to get close to the elephants, I would rather hunt with a double 9,3x74R, than a bolt ANYTHING.

For the first shot, I would use ONLY brain shots with the 9,3.

I would also instruct the PH to follow up, IF I had fired my 2 shots and the elephant was not down, and was able to run off.

YUP!

Thanks all, I have received some very savvy advice.

Mark, if I used your thought process on buying a hunt, I would have never been able to go to Africa for the first hunt. Using mine, I've been able to shoot a lion, 4 buffalo, a plethera of plains game and now an elephant. I think I'll continue to search for bargains AND maybe be able to buy a double. Quality and cost are not mutually exclusive. Your welcome.

SBT

I would advise when you get your double that you shoot it a few hundred times, in the field not just at the range.

Do some wild pig hunts if possible.

If you want a double, buy one! There are some rather unlikely circumstances where it would be handy.

It would be difficult to narrow down the possibilities to what are most important, but two biggies are using enough gun and knowing where to shoot, even it if doesn't get done.

As the recent video posted here shows, nothing is going to ruin your video legacy more than not knowing where to shoot an elephant. If only more of these guys got stepped on .....

quote:

Originally posted by BigB:
SBT,

I have only shot 3 elephants, 2 with a 470NE Merkel and 1 with a 416 Rem. All were fun. I think the 9.3 may be a little small for ele and if anything goes wrong your PH might end up shooting your ele.

I no longer have my 470 as it was bought to shoot elephant and after I had shot 2 ele and a couple of buff with it I sold it.

So I think a good option would be to buy a 470 such as a Merkel at the right price and sell it after the hunt. You may lose a little money but I would guess not that much. Plus you would get to shoot your elephant with a big bore double.

BigB

BigB is right, and infact I bought his Merkel double 470NE, and it is a very nice rifle, and he shot a couple of real nice ele with that rifle, plus a couple of Buffalo as well.

If I wanted a new double rifle I would buy the 9.3X74R Merkel, or Chapuis, scope it, and take it along, with the 416 bolt rifle. Carry the 9.3 and have a tracker carry the bolt rifle. If the ele presented you with a good angle for a brain shot, take it, followed close behing with the second barrel, then trade rifles with the tracker, for follow-up if needed. If the ele you want doesn't cooperate, then just shoot him with the 416 bolt rifle.

Then use you little double for all the plains game you want!
The 9.3X74R double rifle is a rifle you will use on all deer,elk, moose, and bear in the USA. Like NE 450 No2, I find my 9.3X74R Merkel is my favorite double rifle for just about everything smaller than elephant, but I would not hesitate to shoot an elephant with it if that is what I had in my hands at the time!

Today my pair of rifles for Africa are the two Merkels a 470NE, and the 9.3X74R! Both can be replaced if lost, and both are rifle I shoot well!

I am using the two ele option. I have a 470, and booked a multiple tuskless cow hunt this year with Buzz. Instead of bringing my 375 RUM as a back up rifle, I bought a 416 Rigby. I will bring both, may use the same gun or change over, and have something with a scope for other opportunities.
Like most people, I have far mor experience shooting a bolt, but still want the opportunity to take at least one with the "classic" weapon.
DGR's are admittedly expensive, but you may get more out of it someday than if you used the money to buy stocks.

I would either use the 416 or buy a 450NE-476WR double rifle and shoot the hell out of it before the trip. The double would be my choice for many reasons, but especially if I was thinking that I might do more elephant hunting.

Also, assuming your elephant hunt is a daytime tracking type hunt, I would get rid of any scope on the 416, if that is the rifle you choose, and become very familiar with the irons. The more so the earlier the season you are hunting.

The brain shot is the classic shot, and done correctly is imensely satisfying, but ~50% of hunters will miss it. If this is your one and only elephant hunt, and you do not want your PH joining the frey, talk to him about a heart shot. BIG target that a blind man can hit. And eles die quickly from a heart shot. Even from a relatively puny .416", .458" or .476" hole.

JPK

Open sights are the plan with the 416, but will have a 1.1-4 Kahles on Talleys, with a 1.5-6 as a secondary scope for other opportunities. I had JJ put on one of the NECG skeletonized rear sights, and really like it. I was very well treated at Champlin. A problem or two needed sorting out (see earlier posts) but patience was well rewarded.
I would certainly prefer a classic brain shot, and will take my direction from Buzz. I can't say if this will be a one and only elephant hunt, but will treat it as such. None of us can predict the future. I'm glad I've taken the multiple cow option, in case it is my only ele hunt.

Oh what a curse to be faced with such a problem....may I please be cursed with it & may I never recover

quote:

I would certainly prefer a classic brain shot, and will take my direction from Buzz

Gee, I hope you don't get stepped on.

Scott, I know exactly what you are talking about... I used a bolt rifle first my only choice but AHH the second time around and you know the rest is history...
That 416 has been by your side for a while and proved itself... I practiced with my double for a year before the 06 safari...

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Marty:
Open sights are the plan with the 416, but will have a 1.1-4 Kahles on Talleys, with a 1.5-6 as a secondary scope for other opportunities. I had JJ put on one of the NECG skeletonized rear sights, and really like it. I was very well treated at Champlin. A problem or two needed sorting out (see earlier posts) but patience was well rewarded.
I would certainly prefer a classic brain shot, and will take my direction from Buzz. I can't say if this will be a one and only elephant hunt, but will treat it as such. None of us can predict the future. I'm glad I've taken the multiple cow option, in case it is my only ele hunt.

Marty,

I was more responding to SBT's original post and his bull hunt. Bulls are a hell of a lot less likely to drop or even stagger from a close miss with a brain shot, and a hell of a lot more likely to spin and go remarkably quickly.

Bone up on Buzz's video for your tuskless hunt. Buzz will have you take brain shots. And your two choices should provide some margin for error on cows.

JPK

For me an classic 21 day elephanthunt will be a "once of a lifetime"...so I would use my 10boredouble, and nothen` to spare. As my back-up rifle my .416Rigby would be taken along.
Elephanthunt just scream for a doublerifle + some long hard tracking days, with heat,sweat, bugs and a breathtaken scenery of africa.

Regretfully (actually thankfully) the double I was considering sold and I haven't found another at a price I can afford. So, the RSM 416 Rigby it is!

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by TANZ-PH:

quote:

Originally posted by R.Jolly:
Stick with the 416.
1. It's plenty big enough (if you put it in the right place)
2. You shoot well with it (so your more likely to put it in the right place)

Well said...DITTO.

Tritto(?). Not even close in my mind. I have heard stories from PHs about experiences of folks trying to use 9.3x74Rs on elephant, not good.

Quatro ditto(?) or Amen Mike