I am seeking new information on the .318 WR. If anyone can point me in the direction I would appreciate it.
Thanks,
Frank

Frank, The .318 Westley Richads is well written-up in "Cartridges of the World." You still see them, many were made as take-down rifles. Karamojo Bell used one when he wasn't hunting elephants with his 7x57 (aka .275 Rigby). A French friend was using his last August when we were hunting together in Namibia.
Regards, Tim

I have an original 1920s 318 WR made by WR. What do you want to know?

Thank you for the response. I will pm you with my specifics.
Frank

here ia a picture of a famous 318 WR. Made by Thomas Bland and Sons for W.D.M.Bell, in 1911. It is the gun he shot commurants out of the air with.

many of the 318 WR rifles were regulated for 180 grain bullets. WR called this the Accelerated Express. All were proofed for 250/37 grains shulz. This is not what they were regulated for.
Regulation is applicable for single shot,magazine,and Double rifles,as it applies to the sight alignment on single barreled firearms. Doubles must meet with barrels, and the sights must also be on. A big job.
Making 318 brass is easy, as 30-06 is run though a 318 die, and trimmed. Then load and fire for expansion of the brass. That is all.
330 dia.bullets are available from Woodleigh, or you can get 338 diameter bullets, and swage them down to .330. It is easily done with a sizing die.
Slug your barrel, as it may be larger in the grooves than .330, an English trait in the early days. They were trying to make room for fouling. Mine is .338 diameter in the grooves and 338 dia. bullets work fine.(very limited shooting,you understand.) The necks had to be reamed to allow for the larger dia.bullets, but that is all. 1 inch groups at 50 yards with both barrels, 180 grain Nosler bullets.

Of course, if you are shooting a bolt gun, like my Greener African Game Park Warden model, the regulating info is immaterial. Personally, I can't say enough for the cartidge. The exit wounds are awesome.

Originally posted by gunsmithing:
many of the 318 WR rifles were regulated for 180 grain bullets. WR called this the Accelerated Express. All were proofed for 250/37 grains shulz. This is not what they were regulated for.


Are you sure about this? I have a 1924 vintage .318 by WR that is clearly marked Accelerated Express and, according to company literature, it was regulated for the 250-grain bullet.

In the good old days express meant FAST. Like an express train. W.R.accomplished this with lighter bullets. All the factory info I have,( a lot) states the 318 W.R.accelerated express was 180 grains. They made it in capped and full metal patch. Somewhere I have the info on the testing data they did on 1/4 inch steel plates. Impressive to say the least.
They were all proved to the 250 grain, as it would chamber, and under British proof laws, it had to meet this standard to pass. So it is very safe in 180 grain.
How does your gun shoot, as far as regulation? It may have been altered at some time for 250s as the 180s have not been available commercially for a very long time.

Durring WWI, British Snipers used the 318 as it would shoot through the metal armour the German Snipers used for their "loop holes".

Dear Gunsmithing
I have allways wondered if cases form as descibed are ONE off or can be reloaded?

You can use loading data for the 338-06. A 250 grain bullet of good quality would do fine. Don't use the hard ones(Swift), a softer, bonded one is better..

M

The softer bullets will fill the grooves better,as they upset on firing. The harder cored ones will shoot fine if your groove diameter is .330. Mine is .338. I use .338 bullets in it, and reduce the thickness of the necks to allow for expansion. 180 grain Noslers shoot fantastic. Right to regulation.
Oh and yes, cartridges formed that way can be reloaded the same as any other. Just back off the die 1 turn, to allow for tight headspacing. You will have no probem with that load in the rifle you fireformed it with.

Check this link.There is a very nice .318 by WR.

http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin...826&iSaleSectionNo=1

Best-
LOcksley,R

Wow, Robin of Locksley, give my regards to Marion! That is a nice looking rifle. Do you have any experience with such auctions? How does one bid? The rifle looks in good shape. Any other pictures available? Other contributors: what do such rifles go for in the States?
Thanks, Peter.

I posted the original above question around 3 years ago I think.

That rifle is very nice. I too would like to see more. Cannot guess on value with that photo alone.


The LT series straight up have been selling for $4000 to $6000 based on condition. I watch these sales very closely. Passed on a later version for $3000 this year because of re-blue and incorrect sights.
I sold a takedown for $6500 earlier this year.
My takedown would sell for $7500 to $8500 based on current sales. I will never sell it as it is too sweet to carry and shoot.
Frank

Sorry Frank! I did not even look at the date of your original post! In any case I guess you are an expert now, so can I ask you a couple of questions:
1. Are bullets available for this caliber?
2. Is brass available for this caliber?
3. Where does it fit ballistically in the pantheon of African calibers?
4. Suppose I were not interested in the "originality" of the rifle, what do they go for?
5. What is the "LT" series.
6. I lied about the "couple of questions"!
Thanks, Peter.

I had an original, early W-R bolt gun 20 years ago. Buffalo horn bolt handle, 28-inch barrel, folding leaves out to 600 (a bit optimistic?). Loved the cartridge, should have kept the rifle but it had EXTREME cast for a right-handed shooter so fit me horribly. Have always craved another. 250-grain bullets wonderfully effective, very little recoil. Essentially no different than a .338-06, .35 Whelen, even the new .338 RCM--but the .318 is nostalgic and very cool. I remember Jack Lott had a Holland & Holland Royal in .318 (rare bird, since it was a W-R caliber, would love to know who talked H&H into making it). I took him blacktail hunting once, and he took that rifle. Made an interesting picture in the California hills, Jack with his Rhodesian beret, bush jacket, and sidelock double! Glad to see discussion on this great old cartridge.

So Craig, the 318 is a proprietary cartridge for W-R?
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
Wow, Robin of Locksley, give my regards to Marion! That is a nice looking rifle. Do you have any experience with such auctions? How does one bid? The rifle looks in good shape. Any other pictures available? Other contributors: what do such rifles go for in the States?
Thanks, Peter.

Hi,

Thanks.I did attend a few auctions,though not Bonham's.You can bid on line I believe.You need to contact this gentleman with the lot number
patrick.hawes@bonhams.com

Or, you can have someone bid for you and then ship it to you to USA and I think it can be done.Try posting the question in the European big game hunting section on AR.There are a couple of gentlemen there who can do exactly this for you.

Best-
Locksley,R

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
Sorry Frank! I did not even look at the date of your original post! In any case I guess you are an expert now, so can I ask you a couple of questions:
1. Are bullets available for this caliber?
2. Is brass available for this caliber?

http://www.westleyrichards.com/gun/ammo_metal.php

From the above link


.318 Westley Richards
250 grain Soft Nose or Solid Bullet
Muzzle Velocity 2400 ft/sec Energy 3200 ft/lbs BL 26"

$90 - box of 10 Soft Nose

$90 - box of 10 Solid

HTH.

Best-
Locksley,R

Thanks. I am originally from England and will be over there next month. I have sent Patrick an email, just trying to figure out how to handle this, with the first item being to get more info. on the gun, and then, the logistics of bidding on it from over here. I appreciate all the info you found for me. Seems to me that the 318 is similar to the 9.3x74R (or 9.3x62). Does this make sense?
Peter.

Peter, to answer some of your questions, Woodleigh makes both softs and solids in the traditional 250 grain weight. Woodleighs are generally available thru Midway or Huntingtons here in the states. Brass is available from Quality Cartridge Co. with the proper headstamp, or you can make your own with a single pass with 30/06 brass thru the .318 resizing die and then trimming the neck back to the proper length. The .318 express was chambered by many makers, I have a pair of Vickers mauser bolt rifles. The .318 was indeed, the British equivelent of the 9.3x62 in that it appealed to folks for the same reasons, light rifle, five round capacity, relatively inexpensive, mild recoil and killed effectively, all out of proportion to its published ballistics. The German settlers used the 9.3, the English used the .318. One option you have, if you cannot find an original for a decent price, is to have one built. Lothar Walther offers the chambering in their barrels and I ordered one in the Mauser type E contour and it is a beauty! I believe Krieger also offers it on a special order basis. Mated to a standard Mauser action, there is virtually no modifications normally necessary for feeding and function.
As to the LT series, the only thing I know referring to LT was that they referred to a bullet W.R. used that was a "capped" syle soft and it did not have a good reputation in Africa, it was too frangible and did not penetrate well on tough game. I took my Vickers .318 with my handloads using Woodleighs to Tanzania two years ago and it worked fine on Zebra, Impala, and Hartebeest. I would not use the loads for 338-06 in a vintage gun unless I started with the lightest load listed, the fairly mild load in my gun showed high pressure in a friends Coggswell, and I believe it was because they were throated differently. You cannot count on all of the old English guns to be chambered to one standard, it just did not happen. I would like to see the old .318 enjoy a resurgence like the 450/400 is going thru, if we can just convince Hornady to make .330 bullets! Good Luck! Lee.

.

To Peter: It was a Westley Richards cartridge for sure, but they must have "opened it to the trade" (as Holland did with the .375 H&H), rather than holding a strict proprietorship; you see other makes so chambered (as in this thread). This is conjecture, probably W-R could give a proper answer--or someone here more knowledgable than I am!

Well I am not an expert and far from it but I am enthusiastic and appreciate fine rifles to be sure.
I was very fortunate to meet a gentleman- also a dear friend of Jack Lott and in fact in possesion of on early 458- who had several of the Westley Richards rifles. After 3 years of enjoying each others company and shooting enthusiasm he agreed to sell me two. One was the light
barreled action takedown and the other a traditional Action or threaded breakdown.
I sold one last year to another member and although I "HAD TO DO IT" I rather enjoyed having the two.
I have also been reloading and shooting the Woodleigh's although I did receive multiple boxes of the "Capped" (a copper cap over lead) the nickle clad and traditional jacketed soft and solid. I believe dearly in shooting every rifle I own and shooting these sweeties with honest original WR ammo has been wonderful.
I have been very lucky to be reading the Westley Richards 1812 to 1912 compendium which I borrowed for one of our members ( I know, I need to return it) and thought you all might like to see some of the different items in the catalog.
With regard to the LT, I don't believe it to have been a series either as Alf pointed out but I have seen 5 different rifles built in the time of Taylor with L.T. stamped on them. I suppose it was to honour the man who ran the company into and through its glory years.

Sorry about these terrible images but my scanner is on the blink and I photographed these without taking time to set up any lights.

For Craig-- If you happen to come back to the post. I do believe the builders were all a bit ambitious. You mention a set of sights at 600 yds.
Here is an 8x60 Magnum Bombe with a ladder set to 1200 yds.




From the compendium.











These are some images of the rifle I sold.

Frank, I wonder what in the heck anyone could see over a sight like that at 1200 yards????? Just got a military K98 8x57with ladder sight to 1800 yards. I guess for plunging fire on a trench line?????

On the range I never shot my W-R .318 past 200 yards, but in addition to the (many!) folding leaves it had the tiniest little front bead I have ever seen. Honest, I'm pretty good with iron sights, but I doubt I could even see that bead today. Even 20 years ago it took time to get the sight picture right! But, given the time and adequate light, it was very accurate. I used that .318 to make what I think of as the best shot I have ever made, considering the equipment. Wildebeest in the Okavango, no rangefinders then but well over 200. Raised the 200-yard leaf (only time in my life I ever raised a leaf sight in the field!), held high on the shoulder, dumped him in his tracks. Very cool. Really shoulda kept that ((*&(*^*&^%*&^*^*%%^) right-handed rifle.

My 318 now resides somewhere in Alaska. I got rid of it as I wanted a lefty.
Like several others I have seen over the years it had "LT" prefix the serial number and the triangle to denote accelerated express. I had been led to believe that the LT prefix meant that Leslie Taylor had a hand in the construction of the rifle but I may have been misinformed.
Great post Frank.

I WANT ONE OF THESE!.
To quote from the photographs posted by Frank:
"Authorities agree that it's accuracy is so high that one cannot miss with it"!!!!!
Gentlemen, thanks very much for all the great information posted! Lee440, thanks for your suggestion. What did your complete rifle cost you (ball park)?
The bible says that lust is a sin, but damn, I am lusting after one of these! Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!
Peter.

.

quote:

I guess for plunging fire on a trench line?????

We do seem to regret selling the rifles we trade in on some other.
We still have the memories though don't we.
I would suppose the "dumping fire" would have been better accomplished with a 45-70 and its rainbow arch.



Thank you Alf for the further explanations. I had no idea the triangle and placement had such meaning.


I would love nothing better than to take the .318 back to Africa but as others have mentioned that tiny bead is hard to find at the range much less a trophy in the field.
Frank

Nice reading. Here in Norway I have used 30-06, 8*68S, 9,3*62, 9,3*64 and .375H&H for moose, but the most effective cartridge I ever have tried is the 8mm-06 with a Woodleigh 220gr RN. At 2600 f/s this combination give excellent results both on roedeer, moose and wildboar.
Built this gun on a sivil Husquarna M98 action, short and handy with a 23' barrel. I have the same results as Mr. Boddington writes about the .318 in his excellent book "Safari Rifles"

M

Good morning All.

I have a WR in .318 serial number 38833. Does anyone have any idea year of manufacture? I looked on Westley Richards' website but the rifle is not on the on-line database.

Thanks All and thanks to Frank for posting the WR documents.

quote:

Originally posted by PSmith:
Good morning All.

I have a WR in .318 serial number 38833. Does anyone have any idea year of manufacture? I looked on Westley Richards' website but the rifle is not on the on-line database.

That's not surprising. Westley's magazine rifles were numbered separately. The magazine rifle table in Brown begins with SN 36,288 circa 1896 and skips to SN 40,001 in 1917. A footnote states "Earlier unrecorded weapons are known to exist, generally details sketchy till 1917". Your only recourse would be to request data directly from Westley. They may or may not have a record of that number.

quote:

Originally posted by Alf:

The triangle is the Westley Richards trade mark, sometimes the year of manufacture was stamped in the triangle; it appears on all of their rifles.

No, there are plenty Westley's without the triangle mark. Westley had many different numbering systems and prefixes, the triangle being only one. Brown states "On top of that there were several numbering systems with letter prefixes and one with a triangle prefix...".

quote:

The LT in the serial number denotes that it was a Leslie Taylor patent. WR put LT as part of the SN on the 318 in recognition of his part in it's development.

The LT isn't a really a prefix, and doesn't necessarily appear in the records. It simply signifies that the rifle was regulated for the LT Capped bullet.
----------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Thanks Mark.
What book are you referencing?
I would like to get that for my permanent library.
Frank

Frank:

Nigel Brown's "British Gunmakers - Volume II, Birmingham, Scotland & the Regions".

Hope you're well, Frank. Long time, no see.
-------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

.

quote:

Originally posted by Alf:
Oh geez here we go again round and around on the AR battle circuit.

Nope, not a chance. You said "it appears on all of their rifles", which is a long way from true. You're simply mistaken. If you feel the need to take that observation some other way and create a "battle circuit", have at it.
--------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

.

Sorry, I failed to say my rifle is a Westley Richards Mauser in .318 WR not one of the snappy doubles.