Hi Guys,

This is my first post in the African Hunting forum. I'm writing from Newfoundland, so basically all I hunt is either Moose, Caribou or big honking Black Bear in terms of big game. Was watching a couple of African hunting videos the other day. My interest was sparked, especially in Cape Buffalo and am thinking about saving for a trip.

I'm not interested in spending 60-80K for a handmade double gun. Am looking at bolt gun, probably either Winchester, Remington or CZ. I've heard from some that the .458 Win Mag, is capable serving as an all around, 'go-to-gun' for African hunting. What are your opinions? Probably bring along my .300 Win Mag for light skinned game, antelope, etc...

I'd be interested to hear what you guys think. Thanks. X-man.

Xman,
The 458 will do what you want it to do... There are many who live in Africa who use it...To tell the truth a 375 will do you real good and it will be a cruncher on all of the animals you mentioned in your home territory...But if you want to buy one they do work..My friend took down a buf and and ele this past fall in Zim with one... If you plan to reload the 458 Lott is also available from CZ and Ruger,Win. is offering some new cartridge selections for their new year line of Express rifles..
However the final call will be your choice and your money..Recoil should be factored in also...
I shoot a 375 300grainers and a 458 Lott 500grainers

Mike

*X-Man*,

Welcome to the forum.

I think one will have to be stretching his point to say the 458 Winchester is an all around gun.

I think that title should go to one of the 375.

You will find yourself rather handicapped if there is some distance between you and your animals. I am sure you can hit them as far with a 458 as with a 375, but you just have to be better at guessing the distances involved.

I've used the .458 Win. Mag. before in Africa with good results on buffalo, hippo, etc., but I'm unlikely to use it again. I've switched to the .416 Remington, and if I ever go to another big .450, it'll likely be a .458 Lott.

I don't see something like the .458 Win. Mag. as an all-around African gun. It was designed (and because of limited case capacity, not very well designed) for heavy stuff like buffalo, elephant, hippo, lion (with soft points) and rhino.

Most African hunting involves plainsgame and leopard, and for these, an elk/moose rifle like your .300 Win. Mag., or else a .338 Win. Mag., .375 H&H, 7mm Rem. Mag., .30-06, etc. would do very well. This is the true workhorse, "all-around" African rifle in my opinion.........

AD

If you so desire, you can purchase a Winchester Mod. 70 Safari Express in a variety of calibers from .375 up. I looked at a variety of information, then got one in .416 Rem. Mag. My buddy has one in .458 Win. Mag. Any of the three will kill anything on the planet with a properly placed well-constructed bullet. The price for one of these rifles will be about $850 USD. If you must have a scope on it, you can eventually have a bit more in the outfit. Mine is tricked out with a nice Leupold. I have about $1200 total in the rifle.

You can do even better with the CZ models. I have no experience with them, though.

One nice thing about a rifle like this is that you don't fall to pieces if you get a scratch on the stock. If that happened with a fine double, I might sit down and cry. I guess it depends upon what you want the rifle for. Will it be a showpiece, or will it be a tool to hunt with? I would rather spend the extra $50,000 or so on several hunting trips than on a rifle that won't do any more, or kill a buffalo any deader, than a bolt action rifle will.

HI,

MR. Atkinson since you mention the 404 when will MR. Brockman have your rifle. I have been waiting a long time for my 416 Rigby. He told me I should see it the next two mounths or so. Kev

Atkinson...what a sissy.

HI,

MR. Atinson that sounds like it will be a beauty, I would have love a nice wood stock, but had to go with synthetic ,sent him a Mcmillan stock as I will be in a very wet area alot.Kev

I have used the 458 and it sure didn't impress me..As I have said many times, anyway you cut it the 458 Win. is a poorly designed cartridge, it lacks powder space, no question about that.....Handloaded it works fine, but at top pressures and that is in itself suspect.....

My choice, like most here, is the 416 Remington or even the Rigby...The 375 H&H is always a fine choice and you can use it in the states....The 404 is a great caliber, but only for those reloaders and fiddlers.....

Now, that CZ has come out with the 458 Lott and Hornady makes ammo then that will henceforth be the choice of the big bore enthusiest and rightly so..But thats a lot of extra recoil IMO.....

*X-Man*

Take a look at the debate about the 45-70. Dr. ALF recommends a 458 with a large case. Why not a 450 Rigby rimless, It can be built on a CZ 550. Better performance than the Lott with less pressure, even with heavy mono solid bullets

http://www.accuratereloading.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=559138&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=21&fpart=all&vc=1

Cheers
JOHAN

Kev,
Jim is only re-barreling mine, I will do the rest...Also I sent him a stick of my Turkish walnut to have turned to the specs of his stock pattern, which is my stock pattern that I lent him to copy some time back...They do those stocks on a cnc machine and they come out very close to drop in..His are laminated, but I wanted walnut and I had a piece that I have been saving for just such a project.......

As to time, whenever I get it.....good work is slow..

PC, have you ever been accused of being a trouble maker?

Not yet but there is afirst time for everything

I was just wondering if anyone had explained to the gentlemen the magical properties of a hard cast .458 bullet exiting the barrel of a lever gun.....Infact maybe Frodo's Journey would have been much easier had he invested in a Marlin 45/70 Guide Gun and a few packets of Garret +P 45/70 ammo

If I were half as good at marketing as Garrett is, I would be in Africa every year.

I reckon the best allround .458 calibre is the .458 lott it splits the difference between the bigger .458's (Rigby & Weatherby) and the .458 winnie. I really feel it is a practical round.

But thene again maybe your better off with a 45/70 Marlin

You don't have to spend up to 80K for a good set of doubles. You can get a Searcy for about $9500, a Merkel for about $8-$9000 and a Chapuis within this price range. Of course, these are retail prices in US bucks for new 470's. It's hard to shop around if there are no places that stock them. You might have to make a few plane trips to the States just to look around.

from all the reading I've done here it seems the favored caliber for DG hunting is the .404 Jeffery.....

Thanks for all the great replies guys! I haven't really looked at the .458 Lott that hard, simply because it is 'rare'r 'n hens teeth' around my neck of the woods. I have a friend who has several .458 Win Mags, including a very nice Ruger #1 that I like, so I guess that was what influenced me there.

I am a handloader and I cast my own bullets. I'm an old Shooters.com alumni on the Cast Bullet board. I've taken 1800lb Moose with my own cast bullets.

I like the .375 caliber, but have always heard that it was marginal for the really big critters in Africa. The .458 Lott sounds like an interesting improvement on the winchester round.

I'm probably going to go with a bolt gun. Right now I'm leaning toward either the Remington or the CZ, probably will go with the latter. I've been quite impressed by the quality of their work of late. Love my Remingtons, but might be nice to take another girl for a whirl. Thanks as well for the info on those other double rifles. I have maybe 40 rifles and shotguns in my collection and about 20 pistols and I shoot all of them, either at the range or hunting, so I'm not the kind of collector that will stick a gun in a vault and that's it.

Living in Newfoundland, the most practical rifles are the weather proof variety. Synthetic stocks or good laminates are the way to go in our wet climate. I haven't really gone to stainless steel yet, still love the look of a nice blue job, just have to put more time in cleaning and oiling them. That's a big reason for me to opt for a bolt gun. You can use it like the tool it is, rather than as a work of art. Plus, like the other poster said, cost savings can translate into a number of additional hunts!

Anyone currently own/shoot the .458 Lott with the CZ action? Again, thanks for all the replies, and hope to get lots more. You guys are a wealth of info. Sean...

N E 450 No2

Are you haveing a bad day or maybe gotten some insight I thought you would try to push the silly overcomplicated rifle

Cheers
/ JOHAN

X-Man
In a bolt rifle the 458 Lott is a good choice. I would go with the CZ over the Remington.

cr500
For a 300 to 350 bullet driven at top 458 velocities that will not come apart try www.northforkbullets.com or the Barnes X.

Amen, brother!

I,m a bit of a fan of the 458 and 458 Lott (notice I said fan ,not expert) I think they would be good gun for all dangerous game. Ammo is available all through Africa,Australia and USA which is where most would be used. Its not too big and scary, but big enough for anything you would go after. I was interested in finding some 300-350gn bullets which will work at 458 Lott velocities (or at least more than 45/70 velocities) for flatter long(ish) range plains game shooting. I know the 458 lott is no varmint cartridge ,but are there any 300-350gn bullets with pointy tips to use on lighter game????

I have had a lott made from a cz .458 winnie and it is a pleasure recoil is not all its cracked up to be with 500 gr woodleigh's at 2300 fps. I had 2 extra bolts added and a barrel band, it holds 5 down and one up the spout and it is one of my favourites, love those cz's