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If this is the wrong forum, I apologize but figured this group was most informed on this topic: my son is working in South Africa for the summer at a safari camp. I have a Brno 21 in 7x64 that really likes Winchester's International PowerPoint load and Barnes' Euro load with TTSX bullets. If he can find a few boxes of each, are there any SA or US regulations prohibiting him from bringing them back to Texas? Other than the airline packaging and weight restrictions? Can you point me to the applicable regs? thanks | ||
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I think as long as packaged appropriately it shouldn’t be an issue. I just flew Qatar to SA and back and had reloading components in my checked bag and they went batcrap crazy in Doha over it and threatened to put me in jail. They ended up just taking the stuff after a 45 minute interrogation in the airport police office. It was just new packaged empty brass and some monolithic bullets for reloading. "In the worship of security we fling ourselves beneath the wheels of routine, and before we know it our lives are gone"--Sterling Hayden-- David Tenney US Operations Manager Trophy Game Safaris Southern Africa Tino and Amanda Erasmus www.tgsafari.co.za | |||
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My advice is not to chance it, as the above example demonstrates! He got away lightly because it was NOT ammo. Check South Africa’s regulations too. | |||
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I agree with Saeed. I would not take the chance. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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If he does not have a firearm permit from the SA Police with that specific caliber listed, he will be unable to purchase anything anyhow. | |||
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thanks all - this is the beauty of AR - sharing helpful, informed knowledgeable! | |||
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The big problem awaits when re-entering the USA. Ammo, like firearms, are controlled. You need an import permit issued by ATF unless you can prove you took the stuff out with you when you departed (that's what the form 4457 is for). In practice, if you took a rifle with you and have the form, you can bring that rifle back and they won't even look at the ammo. But if you have no rifle, you can bet your bottom $ they will look at the ammo. Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
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Dumb question. Could you mail the ammo back to the states or is that controlled also? | |||
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Any importation of ammo is controlled by the ATF no matter how it enters. There is a list called the "Munitions List" and anything on that list is controlled, ie you have to get an import permit before customs will release it. Brass, bullets, ammo, powder, primers. The only notable exception is empty shotshell cases. In any case, no mail carrier will accept ammo across state lines, not even fedex and UPS. You can air freight limited quantities of ammo, or ship a container load by sea, but it all has to be approved by ATF. Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
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I got busted by UK authorities for having an empty .22 shell in my rucksack. They tried to claim it was a bullet. It took some time for them to understand it was a worthless piece of brass and I was not going to blow up the House of Parliament or try to assassinate my good Queen. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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funny the same happens to us while going to alaska and the custom officers were laughing as we were importing highly restricted items from atf ... they took it in a bag and give us back when we went home to canada ... | |||
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It falls under the general smuggling law i8 USC 545 as I recall..so don't do it.. I recall boarding a flight in Dar Es Salam and had some empty 404 cases, about a dozen, it upset the Tanz customs agent, I told him I had shot them at game on safari and kept the case to saw off the heads and make buttons for my safari jacket..He was impressed and I gave him 6 cases for his jacket..He passed me and was a happy camper..Most things in Africa are negociable with the proper and polite attitude, with the wrong approach it can be a Tanzanian jail tank, and that ain't funny..I had to get a smartass hunting client out of jail with the help of one Licky Abdula, an old and dear friend of mine, for trying to bride an official at the airport in a rude manor as opposed to a proper manor..If you play the game you better know how.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Just say your renting a rifle to hunt with. Better have a hunt reserved tho..... MopaneMike | |||
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Doesn’t work. You could get locked up. | |||
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I would suggest contacting ATF and Customs to see if simply getting the proper paperwork to import a small quantity is doable. Might not be terribly complicated. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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If the above "state lines" is referring to the United States that is an incorrect statement on a couple of levels. First, the word "mail", when related to shipping issues in the US should only be used to refer to the USPS. Fedex and UPS are not "mail" carriers. USPS does sub contract things to them but that does not make them "mail carriers" with respect to "mail regulations". Second, ammunition can be shipped via UPS by individuals across state lines. You just have to do it from a UPS Customer Service Center. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I think some here are trying their best to forget that you are actually transporting prohibited goods internationally. Taking hunting ammo with you is an entirely different matter, and is governed by different regulation. I would highly recommend that non of my friends here attempts it. Even if you do not get into serious trouble, the aggravation is not worth it. | |||
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You have been provided advise from many members. Questions to you: 1. How does your son plan to purchase the ammunition in South Africa legally? a. Having purchased ammo in South Africa, I needed to show my SA 520 form and my letter of invite, plus I was with my PH at the time. 2. How does your son plan to export the ammo, and how will he obtain the proper paperwork from the South Africa Police? a. The paperwork is for both sides of the pond. 3. How does your son plan to present the imported ammo to customs when he returns to the USA? a. I was asked one time (the only time I brought back ammo) for the ammo to be inspected. I just think they wanted to see what was in my ammo case, and they checked the stamping. 4. Have you or your son identified a good lawyer in South Africa, that you will be able to contact to help work out your issues. You may need to provide a retainer so he can check with the South Africa police the day your son is to return home. a. Which I am sure you will need. b. You know just in case your son's plans go to pieces. 5. However, have you or your son looked for the bullets so you could reload them if he is able to purchase them legally? a. then come the import portion that you will need to be up to date on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "You've got the strongest hand in the world. That's right. Your hand. The hand that marks the ballot. The hand that pulls the voting lever. Use it, will you" John Wayne | |||
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A State is a country in most of the English speaking world. Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
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And Texas is a country that simply reigns to be part of the USA. Just ask them  I simply refuse to believe that only loads available in out her countries are the only loads this rifle “Likes”. Are there seriously non other factory loads it will shoot well? Is reloading not an option? DRSS Kreighoff 470 NE Valmet 412 30/06 & 9.3x74R | |||
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Poor Texans. One time they belonged to Mexico. Now they belong to Washington DC!  | |||
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You can ship small arms ammo anywhere in the USA via UPS, all you need is that black and white sticker they will give you to stick on the package.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Ray, I was contacted by a PH to see what Ammo I had available for a 375 H & H. A hunter was looking for 2 boxes to take in a last minute Cape buffalo hunt in Zimbabwe. Well, have a few different brands of 375 H & H ammo and I provided them an option on what I had available. The ammo arrived and They are flying out next week. I placed 2 boxes of ammo in a box that was wrapped like I have sent ammo before to other individuals. Drove down to the main UPS office in our city. Walked in with my box to be shipped. Thinking that this would be easy and the UPS worker would affix the proper label and sticker. So much for my thinking. At the main UPS office where I live, the workers/supervisor, Informed me that I needed to have the black and white diamond or square depending on how you place it on the box. I was informed that the UPS office (that I went to) did provide it. They suggested that I look around and try and fine one (they did not have any suggestions on where I could purchase one) or go home and print one off the internet. The manager informed me that I needed a bigger box so that the printed diamond or square could be affixed to the box. It needed to be on one side of the box. It could not be on two sides. It took a week to arrive at the proper destination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "You've got the strongest hand in the world. That's right. Your hand. The hand that marks the ballot. The hand that pulls the voting lever. Use it, will you" John Wayne | |||
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the op asked about bringing ammo from south africa into the usa. somehow that evolved into a discussion about shipping ammo within the usa. you can ship ammo within the lower 48 but not to AK or HI. by ground only. and not by usps. and yes, you have to mark the box with the necessary hazmat sticker. you can ship ammo by air freight internationally with a lot more conditions .. max weight, special type of box, special packing, special hazmat declaration, the requisite export and import permits etc etc. you can also ship it by sea container in larger quantities. none of this is going to help the OP. the easiest place in the world, perhaps, to buy ammo is the usa. buy your ammo here. Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
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