Since Wendell has started the me thinking of a Lion hunt sooner than later I need some help.

What do I need to look at for a gun?

I am talking something that is effective and reasonbly priced.

I am not prepared for Wendell's deal this time but who knows next time might be different.

Thanks for the help.

Ian

A .375 H&H is the minimum and is a great choice.

A .375H&H is just about ideal for lion.

George

ILW: 375 H&H is certainly good advice, but what calibers do you currently own? if you will be hunting lion over bait there are many other options. jorge

M70 in 375 or 416 would fit your needs just about perfectly I think.

I have a friend in SA (PH, gamecatcher) who says that the .338 WM is the perfect rifle for lion.

He´s done it, I haven´t.

Not that i advocate it for everyone, but a friend shot one about a month ago with a 300. The lion jumped, took about 4-leaps and fell over.

You'll of course have your "minimum, legal-caliber" gun with you, but lion aren't that thick. Anything in that class or above (whatever you shoot most accurately) should work fine. It's where you put it that counts.

I agree the 338 Win Mag, or 340 WBY are about perfect for lion on bait, butttttttt, I think Wendell's hunts are in Tanzania, and if so, 375 H&H is minimum lagal chambering, for lion!

The special Wendell just posted is in Namibia, although I don't think ilw is going there. This is what the NAPHA website says:

quote:

Firearms
Smallest calibre 7 mm.
Minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity): 1350 Joule for springbuck, duiker etc.
2700 Joule for hartebeest, wildebeest, kudu, gemsbuck, eland etc.
5400 Joule for buffalo, elephant, rhino etc.

No solid point cartridge is allowed to be used on antelope or any other species.
!! Handguns and automatic weapons are prohibited. !!

I have never shot a lion but I shot my buffalo with a 375-caliber and didn't have any qualms using it..even in the thick stuff but we did get up close to a couple of lions that knew we were there and I was wishing I had more gun in my hands as the 375-cal felt mighty small.

Of all the animals in Africa the lion is the one that has the most "pucker-factor" for me.

I'd shoot a baited lion with a 30-06, but I don't consider it to be a smart choice for an all-around lion cartridge - and the same could be said for most anything smaller than a 375.

I think the lions that Wendell is talking about are hunted by tracking so a 375 up probably is a prudent choice. I think you'll find when pressed that a PH will tell you a lion on bait will die quite quickly if hit properly with a lesser caliber but the 375 is always the prudent choice and the legal one.

Mark

Ian,
To finish up this topic,if the right min. caliber is .375, what bullets make this the ultimate cartridge?? If accurracy is critical to quick kills will any good bullet do the job??
I plan on using this knowledge next year on Simba so I have some personal interest.
Robert

Hi

The 'biggest' gun that I currently have is a Sako Deluxe in 300 WSM. All though not everyones first choice but I ahve been very happy with it. It was good for 5 one shot & 1 two shot kills earlier this year in Nambia.

I would certainly like to go after lion and buffalo in the furture.

Any other suggestions?

Ian

For my trip to the Selous in July of 06, I am carrying a Champlin Famars 450#2 N.E. as my stalking and follow -up primary big boomer. For baited and plains game I will be shooting a 375H&H...


Mike

The general theory is cat's are more subject to bullet shock than say a buffalo. Having said that I don't want to go looking for one in the tall grass - prefer to finish the matter with the first shot. I used a 416 Rigby on mine and it died in it's tracks, the bullet didn't exit though (shot it in the chest as it was facing me). I remember thinking before I shot him "is this enough gun" - they are big and they move fast. For me lion hunting was more intense than buffalo hunting. Male lion's weigh in at 400-500 pounds and it's all muscle (like spring steel), so you need a bullet that will still penetrate.

I would also be happy with a 375H&H.

I would think a 458 with 400 grain bullets would be about perfect. A lion is an amazing animal. If you see one skinned they do not seem to have an ounce of fat. All muscle!!! I have seen 375s go through a buffalo but not a lion. Ask your PH and he will tell you that rarely is a lion a one shot proposition with a 375. I think the 375 is recommended simply because a good shot with a 375 is better than a poor shot with anything else and most clients can shoot the 375 adequately.

quote:

Originally posted by DB Bill:

Of all the animals in Africa the lion is the one that has the most "pucker-factor" for me.

Bill, I share the feeling! An African lion absolutely scares hell out of me, especially if the light is failing, or the bush is thick, and I know he is close!

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
I think the lions that Wendell is talking about are hunted by tracking so a 375 up probably is a prudent choice.
Mark

I think for tracking I'd use no less that my 470NE double rifle, and I'd still worry when he is close by! Funny, I'm not afraid of Cape Buffalo, I do respect him however, but the lion just plain frightens me, no end!

I think lion hunting is a perfect place for a well made double rifle chambered for 375 FL Mag., or 450/400NE 3"!
Accurate, and light to swing fast, with light recoil, and with pleanty of power for the Big cat!

Speaking of lions...here is a picture of the always ferocious lion cut.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/lioncut.asp

We will have to ask this question of Palmer..What caliber to use for lion....when he gets back from the Selous....



Mike

quote:

Originally posted by ilw:
Hi

The 'biggest' gun that I currently have is a Sako Deluxe in 300 WSM. I would certainly like to go after lion and buffalo in the furture.

Any other suggestions?

Ian

One suggestion is you need to do some rifle shopping! Start with the 375 H&H, and go up from there!

Read Boddington's Book...
African Rifles and Cartridges....then go shopping for you will have some knowledge...


Mike

I'm going to mimic Ray Atkinson here. He has mentioned a number of times, that a 500 grain 458 bullet, at either 2150(450 N2 specs) or greater, is much more devastating then shorter, lighter 458 bullets, at higher velocities, on lions.



GS

PS I've been around enough lions to know that you better nail your target with the first shot, because, it's highly unlikely you will EVER get off a second. If they really want you, a pride IS going to get you. I'm glad we aren't on their regular menu...

I shot my free ranging male lion this year with my Model 70 .375. First shot did the trick by severing the aorta. By the way, I just got my measurements on my lion. The width of the skull is 10 6/16" and the length is 16 10/16" for a total score on the skull of 27". The hide measures 11 feet 10 inches. A monster in anyone's book.

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
I shot my free ranging male lion this year with my Model 70 .375. First shot did the trick by severing the aorta. By the way, I just got my measurements on my lion. The width of the skull is 10 6/16" and the length is 16 10/16" for a total score on the skull of 27". The hide measures 11 feet 10 inches. A monster in anyone's book.

A friend just sent me a picture of his Botswana lion that he said was 11'6"... he also put a weight with it, but i suspect his PH got a little generous when estimating its weight .

Out of couriosity, what did yours weigh?

Just over 600 pounds. Why, what did your friend tell you that his PH had estimated the weight of his lion to be?

^^Post a pic of your monster leo? I would love to see him

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
Just over 600 pounds. Why, what did your friend tell you that his PH had estimated the weight of his lion to be?

About 600lbs... guess I was wrong about what an 11-foot lion should weigh! I though 500-550 (tops) but clearly stand corrected!

Here's a picture of his at 11'6" and 600lbs.

There's a couple of pictures of him, along with my elephant, cape buffalo, warthog, etc. etc. on the African Hunting Reports dated July 23, 2005. Take a look if you haven't already done so.

I saw those... looks like yours has a little more hair than his, but they are both huge at 600lbs.

That's a good lion that your friend took. Hunting lion gets in your blood, just like elephant, cape buffalo. . . .

That is a very good pic of a great lion. Look at the hair all-around. The space between the ears are full of hair and it goes all the way back past his shoulders. Notice the scars on his face. Definitely the pic of a good mature lion. A six-year old will never look like this.

475 Guy
Good description on this Magnificent Lion. How old do you think he is?? Will we ever know for sure?
I do not believe any one would not shoot this Lion!!
Robert

My wild-assed guess would be somewhere around 10-12 yrs or so. I'm basing this on the mounts I've seen where the lions taken were in the 11-14 yr range. I go over to my hunting partner's dad's place and just dream about how it was when he took all his safaris.

I consider the .375 an excellent Lion caliber and the .416 or .404 much better...

Lion are two totally different animals depending on when you shoot them. From a blind, or when running away, they are very soft and dies quickly and easily. Have seen them shot with everything from 8mm Mauser to a 12 bore with AAA (American T). Easy kills.

When full of fight they are a different story. The Lioness that beat the snot out of bill bedford took 7 hits with SG (OO) and LG (OOO) buck. None of the frontal shots got throhgh the muscle and even the ones fired side on by Bob W-C, most pelets failed to reach the lungs. Another case I looked at, a .458 A square lion load blew appart on the chest muscles on a lion that objected to being wounded.

I had a close run in woith a lioness who took a marginal hit with a .458 soft, and then three more prety good hit with a .458 and a .375 as she charged. All were solids (Chris and I were short of soft points and had already used all we had on two other lioness') She failed to be impressed or even significantly slowed down.

On the basis of my experience I would rate the bullet used as important as the caliber used.

1) Bullet impact speed needs to be above 2250fps. A .458 Win or .470 is not as effective as a .416 Rigby or .500/.416 with comparibl;e bullets.

2) You want a fairly soft "soft" for the first shot - something like a woodleigh is great- and then something alot tougher in the mag for any follow up shots ie a "soft for Buff". Barnes X, and Stuarts softs are the ones I have used and am happy with.

I 've been on 3 lion kills. The first one was my own with a .375 from which he took several shots before dying. This is a great caliber but........

The other Lions were shot with .416 Rem. with swift A Frames and they were absolutely flattened on impact. My pick.

Keith,
Were you shooting SAF in the .375??
Your results with the SAF in .416 sound great. I am hoping to shoot a .375 RUM with 300 gr. SAF for Lion, what do you think??
Robert

My rifle for Lion in Zim 2004 was my 9,3x74R Chapuis double rifle with a 286 woodleigh Soft in the left bbl, and a 286 Nosler Partition in the right. This double has a 1.5-6x42 swarovski with the illuminated circle dot reticle. Perfect IMHO for a hunt over bait or a stalking hunt. However if a follow up was necessary i would use my 450 No2 Double with a 480 Woodleigh Soft in the right bbl with a 500 gr Swift A Frame in the left.