The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting A single-shot as a "stopper" rifle...Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Were you thinking, "Hell NO!" as you opened this thread? Will you still be thinking this after you read this? I was wondering about this idea, and how it relates to Double rifles with one side broke... I seriously doubt that anyone in their right mind would use a single-shot (for example, a Ruger No.l) as a "stopper" rifle (I certainly hope I don't offend those that disagree). Well, some claim a Double still has the other barrel to shoot with should one side become damaged. In the heat of battle, one can save the day by tossing another bullet, thus killing the charging animal, as compared to a bolt rifle that jams/breaks. Well, wouldn't this essentially be a single-shot at this point? I think it is, as can clearly be understood. A Double is essentially two rifles in one. Should one side break, the other side can still shoot. But, at this point of damage, its a single shot. Having a single shot during dangerous monents is not very wise should it take more then one more round to finish-off. (You'd be reloading a single shot at this point). History reveals single shots were used a 'stopper's, but progress gave us repeaters and double barrels. Knowing no one would use a single shot as a 'stopper', then can we say a Double is only at it's best when both sides work properly? After this, once damage occurs, could it be best to 'tuck tail and run'? (Yet, one shot is still better then NO shot from a jammed/broken bolt rifle.) Understand, I'm not picking on the Doubles. I find them very facinating, and consider them to be the best tool to have in dangerous situations. I only offer this as something to ponder, that perhaps even 'the best' can become 'less then expected'. Any comments are welcome. ~~~Suluuq [ 10-13-2002, 14:36: Message edited by: Rusty Gunn ] | ||
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Rusty, I had a gentleman come here once with 3 double rifles. A 500, 577 and 600. They were offered for sale, and he was interested in buying them. He asked me to shoot them, to make sure they are all in working order. I fired the 500, then the 577, and then came the 600 turn. I loaded a round, shouldered the rifle, which weighed around 18 pounds! aimed and fired! CLICK was all we heard ![[Confused]](images/icons/confused.gif){kind=icon} I have heard of some old ammo having hangfires, so I had to keep that rifle on my shoulder, pointing downrange. Walter and the gentleman who came with rifle were tripping over each other trying to get out of the room, and out of the basement! Great friends they were. After what I estimated to be around 2 minutes - seemed like a month! I carefully put the rifle down. Went and got myself a drink. The two braves came down, hand a drink each, and then we opened the action. The firing pin was broken! | |||
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Saeed... One never knows when something might go wrong. I've experienced a hangfire once. The round went off after about a second. Scary, when one expects it to fire the instant the trigger is pulled! If it's man-made, its subject to breakage. One may never experience a malfunction in their lifetime (especially in a dangerous situation) but never the less, it can happen to the best of them. ~~~Suluuq | |||
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It seems to me you are mixing up subjects. Whether doubles can have broken firing pins has nothing to do with whether they are stopping rifles. Considering the amount of game taken every year with doubles, or anything else, broken firing pins are a non-event. Good quality, not even high quality, rifles have few problems in their lifetimes. Single shot rifles, including doubles with a broken firing pin, are not stopping rifle capable. The second shot, from a double or a rapidly worked bolt of a magazine rifle, has "stopped" a lot of game that would otherwise have at least dissappeared into the bush if not hammered the hunter. Will | |||
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Ditto Will. Nevertheless, a Ruger No.1 is a bunch better than half a double rifle. Some can reload them pretty quickly, as the gun can stay mounted on the shoulder as the falling block is opened and closed, with the trigger hand sweeping the next cartridge off the buttstock carrier and into the chamber. No swinging open and shut of barrels. But with the proper double there is only the shifting of the trigger finger between two rapid shots. Alas, I have a Ruger Red Label 20 guage shotgun that had, by way of abortion, a set of over-and-under 338 WinMag barrels fitted to it (250 grain Hornady RNSP at 2478 fps regulated perfectly). I was not so smart when I bought this. ![[Frown]](images/icons/frown.gif){kind=icon} I found that the lower firing pin had been broken and repaired before it was sold to me. It had to be redone after the lower barrel stopped working on me, due to the sloppy repair, a welded firing pin. Ruger would not work on this "altered" gun. Luckily I have access to a competent gunsmith. Now I have a nice 20 guage Ruger Red Label for dove shooting. But the 338 barrels might be handy for the occasional non-DGR application, where an edged weapon can serve as backup, like wild boar. ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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| <Axel> |
RAB, after reading your post I believe that my Ruger No1 must be a stopping rifle! This particular rifle has been rebarreled and chambered for the 50-110. Is is capable of launching 570 grain slugs close to 2100fps. Of course at that velocity the accuracy is REAL bad and the primers are about to fall out of the cases. It is better with a 450 grain bullet at 2300 fps. What do you think, RAB, does my Ruger qualify? Axel | ||
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I would like to suggest that all responses to Axel/Todd E/NRAchick/SRS or whatever it goes by be limited to this, most graciously made known by Aspen Hill Farm in a different context: http://www.laurenceholbrook.com/Misc/GreatWhiteFemale/GreatWhiteFemale.htm | |||
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quote:Good show Rusty G, you answered your own question with your last sentence! When a bolt rifle goes bad it is no more than an expensive club, and a damaged double rifle is at least single shot! Which would you rather have? ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon} Machanical breakage can happen happen on a double rifle just the same as anything made by man, but in 50 yrs of useing double rifle the only malfuntions I have witnessed in a double could be traced to the ammo. A misfire, or hang fire in a double is still better than a missfire, or hang fire in a bolt rifle, when you're in a tight! Change triggers and shoot the other side! [ 10-13-2002, 21:18: Message edited by: MacD37 ] | |||
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DaggaRon, Curious about your Red Label in 338. Is it in repair mode now? How is extraction, or ejection with rounds both fired and not-fired? How has the face of the rear block been affected by firing of 338's? How many rounds of 338 have you fied thru the gun. I had read of this conversion somewhere, can't remember where, and have been looking for someone with experience with this gun. Sounds from reading your post that you are not thrilled with this gun. I know this presents a lot questions for you, so whatever bit of info you can pass along will be appreciated. Thanks, Roger QSL | |||
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ALF, that has always been a pet peave of mine! People who insist on heavy recoiling, and heavy rifles for, close in, shooting on dangerous game! As I've said here on AR, and many other places the rifle, double, bolt, or single shot, are all equil if they are very high recoling, and consiquintly heavy rifles, in a close charge of something like a lion. This is, as you say, the first shot better count, because the recoil, recovery,combined with the weight of the rifles it's self turns them all into single shots, for all practical purposes! It has always been my opinion that anything bigger than a 470 class rifle are only something to talk about. I just sold a 577NE 3.25" double rifle, simply because it was very unpleasent to shoot, and very slow to get off the second shot! The 577NE, 600NE and 700NE rifles are, IMO, simply "LOOK AT ME" rifles, and are useless in the field! As I have stated many times, I would much rather have my Army&Navy 450/400NE 3" double than any of the big boys, in a close quarters fight! | |||
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HI, DAGGARON,that killed me where do you guys found this stuff.AXEL, I am all ears to hear what 570 grain you use for the 50-110 and what reloading powder?. Thanks,Kev | |||
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Kev, Check you private messages | ||
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Originally posted by Will: It seems to me you are mixing up subjects. Whether doubles can have broken firing pins has nothing to do with whether they are stopping rifles. I made no connection to which ('stoppers' or smaller) Doubles can have machanical errors, only that if it's man-made, it's subjuect to it. Whether one actually experiences such, is another matter. Double rifle supporters are the ones claiming that should one side become broke, then they still have the other side. Considering the amount of game taken every year with doubles, or anything else, broken firing pins are a non-event. Good quality, not even high quality, rifles have few problems in their lifetimes. I have no control as to who experiences breakage, but it is subject to debate whether it is possible in one's lifetime. Single shot rifles, including doubles with a broken firing pin, are not stopping rifle capable. The second shot, from a double or a rapidly worked bolt of a magazine rifle, has "stopped" a lot of game that would otherwise have at least dissappeared into the bush if not hammered the hunter. I agree. I certainly wouldn't use a single shot as a 'stopper' rifle, even properly chambered. I only made a connection to actual single shots to a Double with one side broken, that a Double is only at it's best with both barrels working. So, the argument that you still have another shot is a moot point, to a certain extent. If one would not use an actual single shot as a 'stopper', then a double with one barrel working is nearly the same thing. ~~~Suluuq | |||
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quote:I've experienced one hangfire in my life, at the gun range. So have plenty of others. In a bolt gun, such a thing is dangerous in the heat of battle, and as you mentioned, a Double still has the other side to shoot with. After this second shot is taken, it becomes a single shot. Now, taken that it's a "single shot", I'm sure most would declare it unsuitable as a 'stopper', until it gets fixed, otherwise they'd just use an actual single shot to begin with. I do understand the mere aspect of a Double becoming damaged at the most unopportune moment is mostly considered talk for the campfire, as it rarely happens. But, given that it has happened, it may do so when you least likely expect it. I contend that a damaged Double may not be what some claim of it, that it still has one more shot available, when we wouldn't use a single shot as a 'stopper' to begin with, since a damaged Double becomes a single shot once the second is taken. The extra barrel is only a bonus until one needs to reload, and requires more shots then a single barrel can provide. I do know this is a poor comparison, but I figured it might shed some light. Perhaps I'm wrong, though. ~~~Suluuq | |||
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quote:I agree. A very large Double is slower to make a second shot, thus not the best choice as a 'stopper', although the cartridges are more then suitable. The difference is the human factor aspect. Not everyone can shoot a very large bore Double efficently. Most are better off with lesser caliburs, even to a point where some argue they are not the best choice as a 'stopper'. Two fast shots are better then two slow shots, IMO, or whats the point in using a Double? ~~~Suluuq | |||
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| <Peter> |
I'm lost. Is the question "If you are hunting and your double rifle breaks eg. one side breaks a firing pin, would you hunt with it or with a bolt action?", I think the answer is obvious. NO. It is now a single shot, and a bolt action is better than a single shot, I don't care how fast you can load it. This assumes similar calibers eg. 416 Rigby or equivalent. Peter. | ||
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Roger, Roger, it is fixed and functional again, thanks to Kevin Jenkins, The Gun Tailor. The ejection works great. each set of barrels has ejectors, 20 guage and 338 WinMag. If the trigger has been pulled the empties sail over my shoulder, unfired cartridges stay put, so it will eject one or both depending on whether I shot once or twice. The 338 case does have a smaller base than a 20 guage, but pressures must be about 40,000 cup with my regulated load, so thrust is still higher than with a shotgun round. This is 71 grains of RL-22 giving 2478 fps with the Hornady RNSP 250 grainer, or Woodleigh solids nearly the same with 70 grains of RL-22. I have only fired about 60 rounds of 338 WinMag, and about 100 rounds of 20 guage 3" shells at birds, so far. It was easy to find the desired load. The face is good, the gun is tight. The adjustable Ruger sight allows the top barrel to be perfectly zeroed at 50 yards, and back near dead on again at 100 yards with this sight height and velocity. The bottom barrel shoots an inch low at 50 yards. A 4-shot composite can go into 1.5" easily at 50 yards. It is a fun gun, but I fear to shoot the 338 much, not knowing what strength the Red Label has for such abuse. It was a masterful job to fit the barrels so well, and I wish I could find out who built this gun, I bought used in a local gun shop. I will try to do some detective work. Actually I was thrilled with the gun until I learned the violations of double rifle etiquette that it presents: It is for a belted/rimless cartridge ... ought to be rimmed. It is an over-and-under ... ought to be side-by-side. It has a single trigger and selective safety, though at least the automatic safety feature has been disconnected ... ought to be double trigger. It has ejectors ... the crew is split on whether this is a violation. It is .338 caliber ... ought to be at least .40 caliber. Great hog rifle while it lasts. With Bowie Knife and Red Label, I will fear no pig. | |||
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Kev, It came from the Humor Forum here, Courtesy of Ann. BTW, the great white shown is not Ann. | |||
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MacD37 and Alf, I couldn't agree with you more about the really heavy big bores being slow to recover from and to get off a second shot. MacD37 you mentioned that you've been dealing with doubles for fifty years. Honestly when it comes to shooting two aimed quick shots what is your experience as to the time required to recover from recoil aim and get off a second quality shot. Lets figure on a 470 Nitro and a 500 Nitro. The only double that I've shot is a Krieghoff 500/416 and I found it would smack me in the cheek every time and the recovery due to this was a bit slow. As far as dumping the two empties and reloading two more the gun was very stiff and it was a long process. The other fellow that tried it ended up with a double discharge. This was his first shot with a double and the recoil made his finger slip back and pull the back trigger. Personally the bolt rifle works best for me. With a well designed stock and a good recoil pad the larger big bores can be shot like the stock purchased 375 or 416's. I keep seeing posts of guys wanting to build the hot 50 caliber rifles (600 grain bullets @ 2400 plus fps) but compromising, gun weight or shooting with a muzzle brake in order to shoot them. I think that a 500 grain bullet at 2400 to 2500 fps can be tolerated and mastered by any seasoned rifleman where as the 50 caliber rifles will probably only be managed by 20 % of the same seasoned riflemen. Just my opinion from observation. Take care 470 Mbogo | |||
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quote:Rather then a hunter's tool, I make the argument to mean it's a 'stopper' rifle, chambered in a suitable cartridge to reliabely stop a charge. This is the argument Double supporters make, that one has a quick second shot at hand. What they don't say (perhaps don't realize) is it becomes a single shot once the second is taken. I declare the benefits of a Double only stand as long as it's a double shooter. I suppose a hunter can 'hunt' with his "single shot" Double, but I'm wagering a PH would rather have it fixed first and foremost. ~~~Suluuq | |||
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Yep, I'll go along with the mass of humanity on double rifle caliber choice for a lot of reasons: 470 NE. Also, the 416 bores are "enough gun" in a bolt action. Take your pick from Taylor to Weatherby. I have shot water buffalo at 50 yards and fallow deer at 342 yards with a Ruger Numero Uno in 416 Rigby. A mild stunt, not daredevilish at all. And one 42" cape buffalo fell to one shot from my bolt action 416 Rigby in Botswanaland, soon to be Greenieland. | |||
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470 Mbogo, Good points. I have to agree that your cartridge combines two of my favorites, the .475" bullet with the 416 Rigby basic case. This has all the possibilities covered as well as anything in a bolt gun for DG, though not as flexible for long range plains game as the grand ol' 416 Rigby. Mine is in the works and I am aiming for 10 pounds with no brake and iron sights. 10 to 10.5 pounds with 4 rounds of ammo. I will let you know. Thanks. [ 10-14-2002, 06:52: Message edited by: DaggaRon ] | |||
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Rusty gun, my friend you still miss the point! Certainly no one will continue to hunt with a broken gun, and that isn't where comparison is made. A bolt gun broken or jammed it the middle of a charge, is a fancy club. A double in the same cercumstances is a single shot, THEN its a club, but faster to reload that good barrel, then it is to clear a jam in a bolt rifle. As I stated, most failures in a double rifle are dirrectly attributable to bad old ammo, and is simply a matter of dumping the dead round on the ground after the second shot, or the first shot after a misfire. In any event, if the failure occurs on the first shot in both types, the bolt rifle is out of service,because most failures in a bolt gun are jams, without a shot, with the double you get at least one, even if a fireing pin breaks. There is no time to change rifles once the war starts, and going into the fight with a one shot to begin with is a little dumb, IMO! Between the bolt, and the double you are at least left with something to fight with other than a stick and jammed water pipe! | |||
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470Mbogo,I have never timed my shooting with the double rifle by stop watch, but I shoot a double that is around 10, to 11 lbs, and with the recoil equivilent of a 450NE 3.25" or less, much quicker than a bolt rifle of even a 375 H&H, and those shots are on target. With my 450/400 3" wt 10.2 lbs, I can get off two on target shots far faster, that two in a bolt 375 H&H, and will usually be about the same time for the third shot as the bolt,the fourth shot will be ahead of the bolt, slightly. Your experience with the Krieghoff 500/416 is not the recoil as much as the rifle does not fit you. If a double rifle is to be used in a tight sittuation, it absloutely MUST fit! All my rifles fit! The proper sequince for fireing a double rifle for regulating, or working up regulateing ammo, is rt,lft,rt, lft, but in a close charge it makes absolutely no difference. To avoid the accidental doubleing, by finger slip, use the back trigger first, in a tight close quarters fight, as this is the only place where the speed shooting needed! Even a badly regulateing double rifle will hit the mark at 20 yds! The large double rifles, after you pass the 470NE, have to be made too heavy to carry all day, but, I find, even the 470NE acceptable for long walks, and about my limit for a fast fight. I have only owned one 500 NE, and after some shooting, I got fairly fast for four shots, and though slower, than a lighter double, like my A&N 450/400 3", was still faster than a bolt rifle! As I've said the 600NE,700NE,and the Big T-REX, and the like, bolt gun rounds are, IMO, useless, and are nothing more than rich man's toys,as most weigh in at around 16 lbs +, they may as well be single shots, if the first shot doesn't do it! [ 10-14-2002, 16:39: Message edited by: MacD37 ] | |||
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MacD37: In addressing the original post, your reply is most direct and sensible. There is no such thing as a 100% reliable rifle or caliber for stopping a charge, but single shots and the little calibers would be further from 100% than double rifles and the big bores. Will | |||
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We have a yearly contest at the Gun Club I belong to that consists of 4 targets. 100, 50, 25 and 5 meters. Rifle targets at 100 and 50. Pistol targets at 25 and 5. All shots must be in the black to count. Minimum Caliber is .40. 45-70 at 4000ft/lbs only (yes we have sandbaggers here too with their whimpy blackpowder loads.) ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif){kind=icon} Timeing starts when the trigger is pulled and you must shoot one shot in each of the targets, longest first. If you miss the 100 yard target you are eliminated. If you miss all the rest you are also eliminated. Best time counts 50% most hits count 50%. We originally put a 10 second time limit but the bolt guys couldn't do it. Most of the double guys couldn't either. Now it is 15 seconds. Originally the bolt guys were only allowed 3 in the rifle to force reloading but it wasn't needed to keep it competitive. We have a couple of guys that are very good with doubles and they win when they shoot but they like to play with their bolts and are just average there. Best Double time is around 8 seconds and 4 hits. Best Bolt time is 12 seconds with 4 hits. A bolt can get into the 9sec but not score 4 hits. All shots offhand with no support. Scopes allowed. (Encouraged by the guys with the doubles as what works at 100 doesn't at 5 yards) I don't remember any singleshots or levers shooting. [ 10-15-2002, 13:55: Message edited by: mickey ] | |||
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Thanks Mickey, That sounds like a lot of fun. I'm going to have to try that down at the local range. Having the 8 seconds for 4 hits is what I was interested in. Do you know what caliber double it was that he was shooting. The best two shots, reload and fire two shots that I've seen with a double was the guys in the cowboy shoots with their double barreled shot guns in competition. The guy was awesome. With all the videos that I've seen with guys shooting doubles it has always been a disaster. MacD37 if your getting off the two shots a reload and the two shots as quick as you've mentioned then you are very accomplished in your double use. Congradulations. 470 Mbogo | |||
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Originally posted by MacD37: A bolt gun broken or jammed it the middle of a charge, is a fancy club. Yup. A double in the same cercumstances is a single shot, THEN its a club, but faster to reload that good barrel, then it is to clear a jam in a bolt rifle. Yup, thats what I said, but may not have said it clearly enough. A Double only offers a fast second shot until one side don't work, then after that fast second shot, it becomes a single shot. Therefore, the virtures of having a fast second shot go right down the drain. This is the point I am making. (Still, its better then a bolt gun that don't shoot.) ~~~Suluuq | |||
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quote:Mbogo I don't remember the caliber of the double, I would guess the .400 3", maybe a 450#2. The fastest bolts are usually .404s | |||
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Mickey, Thanks for sharing your experience with your gun club contest. I think I will have to try that out. By varying the range of the targets it definately ensures that the shots are well aimed. One thing I am curious about though is how you give 50% for time. Do you add the time to the number of hits for a final score? I am not really surprised by the double rifle times as they seem very reasonable. I am surprised that the bolt action times are so long, though. Just for a reference I went back to the video I posted a little while back of 470 Mbogo shooting his 470 Mbogo 4 times at buckets we placed at 25 yards. This is not exactly comparable to your Gun Club's contest, but 470 Mbogo did get 4 dead center hits in only 7.2 seconds, going from first trigger pull to last. I expect the time might be longer for the varying target ranges, but I don't think 470's time would be more than a second or two longer. Here is a link to the video I am referring too. This was taken in early September when 470 Mbogo was out here elk hunting with me... 470 Mbogo four shots How does this speed compare to what you witnessed at your gun club shoots? Thanks, Canuckps: I noticed you are from Washington and B.C.. Is your shoot at a club in Washington? If it is not too far from the border, neither 470 Mbogo or myself are very far over on this side of the line. It is definately pretty tough to find other big bore fanatics on the north side...we are too spread out. [ 10-16-2002, 09:15: Message edited by: Canuck ] | |||
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Canuck I live mostly in Puyallup, just outside of Tacoma. That is where the club is at. I have friends in Vancouver that wanted to bring their rifles down in July but decided it wasn't worth the trouble to get them into the US. The new regulations are a real pain for Canadians bringing rifles or shotguns down here. Even to compete. Their used to be allot of cross border traffic, especially to Kesselrings Gunshop 30 miles South of Blaine. Next month I am going to take the Canadaian classes for an FAC in Abbotsford. Hopefully then I will be able to buy and sell again in Canada. I think that it is the aimed part at a small targets that slow you down. The bullseyes aren't realistic as for target size but they make you place your shot. I think that shooting at 5 gallon buckets at 25 yards would be easier than shooting at a small bull and having to locate the target and then aim. The time is figured at 15 seconds. One point for each second less than 15 for the 4 shots. For instance 4 shots in ten seconds equals 6 points plus 2 points for each hit. If you miss the 100 meter target with the first shot it is considered a missed animal and you are disqualified. If you hit at a hundred and miss the next three you are considered stomped into peanut butter and disqualified. Same thing if you take over 15 seconds. I can't open the file. I quess I don't have the right program. Where are you located. North of Omak, or North of Metaline Falls? | |||
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quote:Only if it's in 45-70! | |||
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Hi Mickey, Too bad you can't see the video...I think you'd get a kick out of it. You would need to have Windows Media Player or Real Player or the like on your computer. They are free to download, and definately worth it. Thanks for the additional info on the scoring. I am definately going to try it out. The rifle targets I have have a 6" black circle (10, 9 and 8 rings). Does this jive with the ones you guys use? How big is the black on a pistol target? (anything handgun related is pretty scarce in rural BC). I agree that taking the care to aim each shot is what would cost the most time. It still surprises me that a bolt action would take that much longer to aim. I actually live north of Eureka MT, so I am a little ways east from you guys. It is only about 5 hours drive to Spokane though, so eastern WA is not too far a stretch for a big bore shoot. Canuck | |||
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Here are the links to the free media softwear download sites if anyone is interested.... Windows Media Player http://windowsmedia.com/download Real Player One http://www.real.com/realone/index.html Canuck | |||
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Somewhat off the subject, but after hunting in Brown Bear/Grizzly country,and Wild Pig country with bolt actions and double rifles, I FEEL much safer when I have a double rifle. If you fire one shot, and the animal goes down, or runs out of sight it is very fast to reload the fired bbl and once again you have 2 up and ready to go. Likewise if you fire 2 and are on "limited" time just reload one, and make it count. | |||
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Canuck Rifle targets are NRA type. 6" black. pistol targets are 3", I believe. Maybe 4"? Don't forget the .40 min. Recoil and most guys have to take the rifle down to work the bolt. If you were really practised at keeping the rifle down working the bolt from the shoulder would be faster. Two aimed shots from the Double faster than one and a bolt cycle from a bolt. Second shot from the bolt and recycle for third shot and double is reloaded and aimed. Third and forth from the double before aimed fourth from the bolt. Most scope shooters have trouble with the 5 and 25 meter targets. Pressure and a smaller target. This is of course assuming a practiced double shooter. Allow more time for fumble fingers, dropped shells, short cylcling and screaming onlookers (verbal harassment is encouraged). In Australia I shot in a BGRC shoot where one of the events was to get as many aimed shots off in a specific time. I believe 10 seconds, maybe a bit longer. About 20 guys stood in a line and shot at a individual targets at 25 meters. The one with the most holes won. All big bores. Quite loud and smoke everywhere. I don't remember how many it took to win.I will try the downloads, thanks. | |||
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Canuck I managed to get it finally. Thank you. Quite impressive. Is that a .460 necked up? The guy shooting knows how it is supposed to be done and would do fine at the contest time wise. Thanks again. | |||
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Hi Mickey, That's me (470 Mbogo) shooting my Bruno CZ550 chambered in the 470 Mbogo. It's a fully blown out and lengthened 416 Riby case necked to .475. The load I was shooting was a 500 grain bullet at 2500 fps generating 90 ft. lbs. of recoil. If your interested you can look at my website www.470mbogo.com. You might find the Comparing The Big Bores interesting. This is the reason that I was asking about the actual time required for recovery and getting off four aimed shots with a double rifle with comparable recoil. I was just curious with a reload between shots and a recovery if the bolt rifle was not quicker when you were looking at the larger calibers. Take care 470 Mbogo | |||
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