I may need to be getting a 375 H&H. I remember hearing some pretty bad things about winchester and their poor quality control. How's the quality of their rifles coming out of the shop these days? Could you recommend them with a good conscience or should I look to CZ or somewhere else? (I plan to be using the gun stock out of the box with exception of a scope, just incase this may sway your vote).

Al

With all due respects friend and I'm not trying to be a smart ass here but if you want a gun to use right out of the box I'd strongly recommend you see a good gunmaker and tell him what you want.....let him order the M-70 for you and he can make it the way it needs to be and I'd advise this if you wanted a Remington, a Browning, Weatherby or anything.....yes even a CZ!! I'd recommend at least a semi custom gun.

vapodog, I'm not at all surprised. I'd figure I'd hear that at least once.

Al

I am pretty sure you can find a good quality factory 375. I am not a big fan of Winchester anymore. CZ is good but the safety leaves soemthing to be desired. And of course Sako, Weatherby, and Remington are push feed and has a crappy safety. You could also get a Blaser, a Sauer 202, or a HS Precision, Dakota, Jarrett, Echols, Rigby, Westley Richards, or any other gun that you wanted to spend the money on.

So you have to make your own mind up about what features are the most important to you.

I would really like to have an old Sako Safari Grade in 9.3x62 or 375. That old gun was perfection.

CZ is acceptable, but I don't like the stocks. Other than the action I hate M70s. So there are a lot of decisions to make. Probably the finest new rifle made is that take down Sauer 202. But it's push feed, only holds 3, and has a Euro-style stock.

How about the Ruger77 MkII in 375H&H
No, I've never hunted Africa, but I didn't see
it mentioned above, and just thought I'd throw
it in for consideration.

I have a CRF Model 70 in .375 H&H and had the following done to it after purchase: trigger job, action bedding, touch-up on the crown, floorplate release checked for no unforeseen opênings and then scope mounted, all by a competent gunsmith. This work cost very little, made it reliable and easier to shoot accurately. It shoots great and in my opinion is one of the best quality/price ratios you can find. Just have

I agree with Wink, with alittle work from a gunsmith, the Model 70 is a great dependable rifle, shoots straight, no feed problems. You can trust it with your life.

Sevens,

I have a CRF Win 70 Safari Express in 416 RemMag which I like very much. I believe is acceptable where it counts. It feeds everything I put through it, the sights are very good and the rifle is accurate.

I have had the trigger, feed ramp, action rails all polished.

I beleive you can buy a good quality rifle off the shelf, put an additional $200 in the handwork that the factories don't do and have a very nice rifle.

I would buy another CRF Win 70.

Also, Keep your eyes open fo ran Interarms Whitworth in 375 H&H. If you find one, you will all set.

BigBullet

Have to Agree with vapodog. Just seen a brand new Rigby .450 That lasted 3 rounds before the mag started springing open and 10 until the stock broke! Wasn't even sighted in yet!

You may get a great rifle direct from the factory but the odds are that even a top of the line rifle will need the bedding seeing to, or something. Rather buy a cheeper rifle with the basic features that you like and let a competant smith tweek it.

Was this rifle a "California Rigby"? If it was, I'm not surprised that it came apart.

Generally, I believe in good custom work for any rifle I might use against dangerous game, and I don't cut corners in this department.

If price is a genuine issue in so far as getting good name custom work done, then a reworked and tuned factory rifle is the next-best way to go. Mark Penrod does exceptional work, and he can modify, bed, tune, and otherwise adjust a stock Model 70 perfectly.

Quite honestly, I don't 100% trust Winchester quality, and I think they ALL need to be reworked to a degree.........

AD

I shoot a M70 in .416 Rem that has been appropriately slicked up as described by Wink above and it works perfectly. I briefly considered purchasing a few other custom guns originating in the US and abroad but ultimately decided to book more hunts instead. When faced with the choice of having more stuff or doing more stuff, I will choose the latter every time.

JMHO,

JohnTheGreek

Sometimes you just get lucky. In October, 1999 I purchased a Stainless, Classic M-70 in 375 H&H new in the box from a private party. The only thing I have done to this rifle is to have the trigger adjusted because I like them a bit light, scope it with a Luepold VXIII 1.5 X 5 in Luepold QR mounts and relpace the recoil pad. It still wears the factory stock with the thermoplastic bedding. It has always performed perfectly and is certainly accurate enough out to 300 yards for hunting. It shoots 300 grain Failsafes, Silvertips and solids into the same group and 270 grain Barnes X one inch above the 300s. I have used this rifle to kill cape buffalo, hippo, kudu, impala, hartebeest, wildebeest, bushbuck, waterbuck, zebra and whitetail deer.

Perry

I'm with Allan, Rigby has gone to hell in a handbasket...

Out of the box 375 H&H? my choice would be the Ruger Safari model of late, it has all the bells an whistles that a custom gun has, even a intregal quarter rib and thats a $2500 feature on a custom rifle, its a CFR and some have nice European Circassian wood. They are hard to beat.

The CZ is rough as a cob, but it is a functional working gun and I like it, and when cleaned up, tweeked and shined its a dandy..

I bought a M70 in .300 Win. last year and had 9 kinds of hell with the trigger. Out of the box it wouldn't even register on the trigger scale (9 lb maximum). After I got it worked down to 3 1/2 lbs and polished, it was so inconsistent I never knew if or when it was going to break. If I went from the bolt locked position on the safety to safety off, it would creep with very little pressure on the trigger at all (ounces), then suddenly stop - with more pressure (~ 4 lbs) it would finally break. When I went to the bold unlocked (middle) position on the safety, it would become more consistent, but still very poor. I finally got a Timney and the thing shoots when I want it to now.

Not super accurate with any bullet/load combination except Matchkings, but passable.

.375 may be a completely different animal, but a Winchester is a Winchester is a Winchester...

I own a Model 70 Safari Express in .375 H&H. I am very happy with the rifle. Jeff did some bedding work for me and that's it.

I think they are a good quality rifle.

OK you bunch of "codgers". Yeah, so I finally broke down and bought a factory rifle at the SCI show. Never done this before, but the Damn'd thing was slick, trigger was light 3-4 lbs, broke like a glass rod and the bolt was tight yet as smooth as my little kiddos butt. And it is made in the USA!

SOOO, here's the poop:

Win. Mdl. 70 Custom African Express .375
Paid around 4500 for it NIB

Whom do I send it to for some manners (that is if it needs any)?

Pls. advise & Thanks for the paranoia (only joking)! All feedback is useful!

Jeff

Well, I’ll throw in my sample of two – a Model 70 .30-06 and a Model 70 .375 built some 3-4 years ago.

Out of the box the functioning on each was excellent. I mean, they fed, fired, extracted and ejected 100% with a variety of appropriate bullet weights, although I have not hung upside from a tree testing this. Never a single failure in any aspect.

Triggers were tuned by simply turning the adjustment screws and were easily set to about 3 ½ pounds.

Fit and finish was good for factory rifles, wood to metal fit was good around the action but the barrel of the .30.06 was definitely free floating all the way to the action – the gap under the barrel was, shall we say, noticeable. It was not bearing against either side of the barrel channel, however, and I believe this free floating was to blame for the very decent accuracy from the box. The recoil pads on both rifles could have used some finer fitting, but nothing atrocious.

Both safeties were positive and well timed, by that I mean they did not require a lot of effort to put them on safe and it took a positive push to take them off safe. I’ve had Model 70’s where it seemed the slightest touch would push them off safe.

Accuracy of the .30-06 was quite good right out of the box, I’d call it a consistent 1 ¼†rifle, but I went ahead and glass bedded it and had it recrowned anyway and now it is easily capable of putting three into the .7 to .8 range.

The .375 was a wanderer; it would walk 4 shots across three to four inches. However, glass bedding the rear lug, free floating the front barrel mounted lug and recrowning made it a good solid 1 ¼†to 1 ½†rifle. Not a tack driver by today’s standards but there’s nothing one would hunt with a .375 that a miss could be blamed on the rifle.

I sold the .375 because I had three .375’s at the time, but that .30-06 is one of my favorite rifles now.

Certainly a custom made gun is going to exceed a straight from the factory rifle in fit and finish and probably accuracy, but how much more do you need than 100% functioning? I’d have no qualms taking either of those Winchesters hunting, even across the ocean.

Sounds like winchester is still a good rifle. The glass bedding sounds like a reasonable and inexpensive modification. Should I bring some dummy rounds to check the ability for the rifle to feed when I go to buy it? Any other things I can look for or check when getting a m70? It looks like my only other question is wood or synthetic? Thanks for the help.

Al

The M70 Classic Stainless .375HH I bought a few months ago is excellent. Absolutely no complaints: accurate, reliable, and very very tough. Likewise the Ruger MkII .375HH I bought a year ago. The Ruger is exactly twice the price of the M70, weighs a couple of pounds more, is far prettier to look at, and is a little more fun to shoot all day.

Jeff: the guy you want to send it to is Mark Penrod. He's truly a genius when it comes to Winnies. jorge

I have to second Jorge's reccomendation. Mark's worked on a couple of my rifles. In fact he has a Pre 64 300 H&H of mine right now. Can't say nice enough things about Mark Prenrod.

-Steve

How about Bill Leeper?

From what I heard, he does excellent work on Model 70s as well. Any comments?

CL, the trouble with Bill Leeper is his Country of origin. It's a PITA to cross the 49th with rifles in eigther direction. I would recommend Bill in a heartbeat. He has done work for me and he will do more. He's a genious at his craft and you can't go far wrong with his work. He's also on your side of the border.

Chuck

I am new here and a bit reluctant to speak up, but....No one has mentioned a pre-64 M70. Its twice the money for a standard grade. I believe it is quite a bit more rifle. It is what it is and its not perfect but it is as close as anything else. I have two .375's, A 1949 SG and a 1950 Standard rechambered to .375 Weatherby. I can't imagine replacing them. You can pick up a rifle(in great condition) add Talley's and your Leupold 1.5x5 and you are at about...what $2200. You can't lose money on it and it will be an heirloom. We all have our opinions. Man I like this place. gduffey

STEVENS
I am looking at one myself

Winchester Model 70 Classic Stainless 375 H&H

$699.94

This item is available in most Wal-Mart stores. Prices may vary. Find a Wal-Mart Store.



Product Information


Type: Rifle

Action: Bolt

Manufacturer: Winchester (USRAC)

Caliber/Gauge: .375 H&H Mag

Model: Model 70 Classic Stainless

Finish: Stainless

Stock or Grips: Black Synthetic

Barrel Length: 24

Overall Length: 44.75

Weight: 7.25

Capacity: 3+1

Sights: Open Rifle Sights

Safety Features: 3 Position Side Mounted

Drilled & Tapped: Yes

Rate-of-Twist: 1-in-12

Additional Feature 1: Control Round Feed

As has been said I would certainly be satisfied with the new rifle, with a small amount of reliability tuning. I think what we can all agree on is familiarity. Spend your money on primers,powder and bullets. Shoot more than you think you need to and have the time of your life. Just don't go to get Africa out of your system. It doesn't work. I am ruined. gduffey

quote:

---

Originally posted by jorge:
Jeff: the guy you want to send it to is Mark Penrod. He's truly a genius when it comes to Winnies. jorge

---

Jorge,

Could you porvide me with Mark's contact info?

Thanks for the input,

Jeff

Penrod Precision
312 College AVe
PO Box 307
North Manchester, IN. 46962
(260) 982-8385
markpenrod@kconline.com