Today I've been putting together an elevated target that is fastened to a small sled. The sled can be pulled by a car via a long rope to simulate a charging elephant (or anything else that charges) towards the shooter.

Just how fast do most elephants run when charging towards hunters? What speed would be most authentic? And how about buff?

The setup is mosty just for some fun shooting practice, but I might as well make it as authentic as possible!

Any thoughts on the matter from those who might know would be appreciated.

a good speed to start at would be 35-40 kms per hr or about 25-30 miles

An elephant can run approximately 2.5x to 3.0x as fast as I can run. I hope that helps.

Sounds like a great setup to practice on. Not being as creative as that, I was going to suspend a Lazy Boy chair from a tree branch, pull on it with a rope to get it to start swinging, then shoot at it.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
An elephant can run approximately 2.5x to 3.0x as fast as I can run. I hope that helps.

Sounds like a great setup to practice on. Not being as creative as that, I was going to suspend a Lazy Boy chair from a tree branch, pull on it with a rope to get it to start swinging, then shoot at it.

Then get your fist shot miss captured on film?

Erik, you should post some pictures of your ele target for us.

Nevster,

I'll take some pictures for you. It's basically an old sled that was used to drag firewood in the old days. It kind of looks like one of those dog sleds they use in Alaska etc. with steel under the runners. But smaller, although it weighs about 35kg. The target is a regular round target (it's all I have here) mounted up on a 2.5 meter high pole.

It appears that no one but 700 Nitro has any speed ideas. I thought that Bill or one of the other experts would have had an opinion.

500grains,

I can see how a Lazy Boy would work, as it's at least the size of an elephant!

Eric, 700 was pretty close to the mark, why comment further?

Eric

Why go to all that trouble? Just step out onto the hiway with your rifle and shoot the first truck that comes at you.

That is much more realistic as a miss will have similar results to the real thing.

Mickey,

Your solution is an option, but I prefer my way. The purpose of doing this is also just for the fun of it.

The centre of the target is 2.6 meters high.

ErikD!

If I were building such a target, I would have it much lower to simulate a charge. I have been charged twice by cow elephant (the most common type of charge by eles) and in a serious charge vs a mock charge an elephant carries it's head very low to the ground. It appeared to me that you have to actually shoot down to hit the brain on a true charge. Even on a big bull you will have to aim no higher then eye level. Your target will be about right but probably a little low for a standing elephant looking at you for a frontal brain shot.

465H&H

I have been thinking about target simulators for many years. One that would duplicate the urgency of it, while being fairly easy to build. I have come up with the following; Materials needed, an old auto of 2000 lbs. or so, enough cable to hoist it 15 feet, a quick release for it ,a grapefuit taped to a target ( hand schetched)of you choice, three freinds, a bottle of fine spirits, one fire extingusisher,one pick axe,a can of gel type b.b.q. starter. Scenerio 1. The target starts toward you freind one yells " he comes" freind two sets your pants legs on fire( to simulate the urgency of the matter) you fire and hit the grape fruit. Freind two puts out your pants legs and you all enjoy the bottle together.Scenerio 2 ,freind yells " he comes" you fire and miss (flames are getting more intense now) you fire again and miss, freind three hits you in the chest with the pick ax,and freind one drops the car on you. They enjoy the bottle and attend you funeral.This should duplicate D.G. hunting as i see it . How close am i and do we need to tweek this abit?. Charlie

465H&H,

I guess I'll have to use this one as a standing target then, and make a shorter one for the mobile one.

Thanks for the tips guys.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
ErikD!

If I were building such a target, I would have it much lower to simulate a charge. I have been charged twice by cow elephant (the most common type of charge by eles) and in a serious charge vs a mock charge an elephant carries it's head very low to the ground. It appeared to me that you have to actually shoot down to hit the brain on a true charge. Even on a big bull you will have to aim no higher then eye level. Your target will be about right but probably a little low for a standing elephant looking at you for a frontal brain shot.

465H&H

Your Mileage may vary.

Shooting at moving cars is great practice, They do it every day down in LosAngles. I think its some what of a curtural thing from south of the border.

A charging elephant can run about 2000 MPH, I have seen this and will swear to it...

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
A charging elephant can run about 2000 MPH, I have seen this and will swear to it...

Ray

Are they really that fast? When they get really low down and in full stride they look similar to Greyhounds and just become a blur.

No wonder they are so hard to hit. At Mach 3 they could out run a 45-70 bullet. Is that why they say not to use one on Elephant?

This is exactly why you need porters to carry a F-16 ejector seat, from which you shoot. If the 45/70 doesn't stop them in 5 shots (mines a converted Mossberg .410 pump), just hit the button. You fly up and away, then parachute safely to the ground landing with a reloaded rifle.

2000 is no hill for an old stepper like myself.

An elephant charging at 2000 MPH has no chance of catching a booking agent at 4500 MPH and when the elephant hit that wall of s--t it stopped him cold!

It seems this happens all the time whilst hunting Buffalo!! then there is those damn Hippos in the high grass....

One other question seems important with this type of towed target, how many times during a charge does an elephant normally honk??

I do want to say that I think some of the european methods of practice are great. I have never been to a range here in CA that has moving targets to practice centerfire on. I know in finland they have a moving moose target that they have to qualify on to get their hunting license. Now that you bring this to the front of my mind again I'll have to look for places to setup my own moving targets.

Red

I will be atteding a double rifle shoot in Baker, OR in July. They have a moving impala target a moving lion target and a charging lion target. In addition they have a pop up full sized elephant head. I'll try to take some pictures and post them here as well as a report.

CHEERS!
465H&H

Thunder Ranch had the best moving targets I have seen. They were moved on small tracks and could be speeded up or slowed down or stopped by the operator. They had crossing and charging targets. I still think that a wheeled cart pulled by a 4-wheeler would work.

We are getting too serious. Every one knows Ele are faster than 2000 mph, Ray is just being modest. If you fired a 45-70 round at at fleeing one, it would only drop harmlessly to the ground. I think the .510 reverse twist gained rifeling caliber invented by Mr Twang who had a bad experience wile hunting Dik-dik's with his .600 nitro self feeder with attached 10 round mag. may be needed here. It launches a 900 grn bullet made from pure titanium at 25000 fps. and comes with its own colapsable carriage. Just the thing to pratice with at any range and any speed. Charlie

The sled/moving target thing worked out very well actually! And I did as advised by using a target only 2 meters up instead of 2.6 meters up for the one dragged by the car. I also added a 20 liter watercan lashed to the sled to add weight down below, and keep the contraption stable. The target did still wobble side to side as it was being dragged though, so it looked very "alive".

I then got the car to pull it at 35-40 km/h down a private gravel road (with a hill in the backround for safety), and pass by me 1 meter to my right side (no reason to get run over by the car!). The sled was fastened to the car with a 20 meter rope, as having it longer didn't work due to the terrain/road. The 20 meters of rope at that speed gave me just time to get off 2 shots within about 2 seconds, and the rifle wasn't raised, and the safety pushed off until the moment the car passed me. I ended up doing this 10 times. with all shots ending up within a 6-7 inch circle. Besides a couple of flyers that went out to about 9 inches.

I then added to the fun by putting up a second elevated target (the old 2.6 meter high one) 90 degrees, and 10 meter out to the left, so the drill then became 2 shots at
the "charging" target, and then 2 more shots at the one "sneaking in on my
left side". I then did this drill about 20 times (split up between two days), and I plan to continue with more next weekend.

The only "problem" is the logistics of dragging and positioning the sled back in it's starting place, which eats up quite a lot of time.

Even if there might be a better way to do it, it was good practice, and terrific fun no matter what! I can highly recommend setting something like this up, even if it's just for the fun of it!

Erik,
You may have mentioned this, but I didn't see it -- What rifle were you shooting and in what caliber?

A 375H&H Mauser (with long magnum action).

Erik,

It sounds like the sled has worked out as a very useful shooting exercise.

465H&H,

You have a PM.

-Steve

I can't get to post here usually, and I keep braging about my new/old .458 WM on other threads, but no one is interested.
One reason I need Mr.Big, is an experence I had with an ele once. The blighter was chained up at the back of a circus. I fearlessly approached, and soon as I got in range this
bugger got some poo on his trunk and blew it all over me.
So if they're all that cranky i'll need my ele gun for protection if ever one excapes.
John L.

ErikD

Get a bigger sled. Mount an old Volkswagen about 10 feet from the grund and open both doors. Now have you pal pull it towards you at around 20 MPH and you will have a fairly accurate simulated elephant charge.

Rich Elliott

P.S.

Have someplace to hide!

Rich,
Every time I think about you hanging on to that elephants leg I crack up, I picture my old poodle humping my leg!!

Ray,

I wasn't hanging on..I was rolling around on the ground trying to keep from becoming a door-mat! I couldn't hang on the elephants leg and the .458 at the same time. Glad I chose the .458

Rich Elliott

To many of the new AR's on the Africa forum....Rich is the only one I know who encounter an up close and personal experience with an elephant...It was above him and not in front of him...
My encounter was at 30 feet in front of me...Rich's was at 4 feet above him...Watching not to get driven into the African soil...
I am proud to say I tipped a few with Rich last year in Dallas...

Mike

I also did alot of practicing before going to Africa for my bull ele...I encountered my ele in the jess and he was up on the river bank and I was on the dry river bottom...Instead of a tenn foot high ele he was close to 4 feet higher....Now all angles were off...I did brain him but he recovered after going down just about to his knees...I then gave him a second in the shoulder while he was whirling like a high speed top...The Ph gave him one on the rear hip and he was gone in about five seconds...I did hurt him real bad with the head shot..He fell three times as he was running away...I was sprinting after him and only saw him once and he was back in the thick stuff...He made a huge circle and came back to within fifty yards of the first shot and died there...We found him by airplane...
Quoting...Will..Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as enough gun..."
Very appropriate....

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Charles Mc Williams:
I have been thinking about target simulators for many years. One that would duplicate the urgency of it, while being fairly easy to build. I have come up with the following; Materials needed, an old auto of 2000 lbs. or so, enough cable to hoist it 15 feet, a quick release for it ,a grapefuit taped to a target ( hand schetched)of you choice, three freinds, a bottle of fine spirits, one fire extingusisher,one pick axe,a can of gel type b.b.q. starter. Scenerio 1. The target starts toward you freind one yells " he comes" freind two sets your pants legs on fire( to simulate the urgency of the matter) you fire and hit the grape fruit. Freind two puts out your pants legs and you all enjoy the bottle together.Scenerio 2 ,freind yells " he comes" you fire and miss (flames are getting more intense now) you fire again and miss, freind three hits you in the chest with the pick ax,and freind one drops the car on you. They enjoy the bottle and attend you funeral.This should duplicate D.G. hunting as i see it . How close am i and do we need to tweek this abit?. Charlie

Thanks, Charlie! I needed that!

I haven't laughed so much since the hogs ate my little brother!

quote:

Originally posted by gunny:
Shooting at moving cars is great practice, They do it every day down in LosAngles. I think its some what of a curtural thing from south of the border.

No, not really Gunny. It's how the L.A. County Sheriff's Dept gets their target practice in - and God knows they need it! 120 (approx) rounds fired - 4 hits on target + 1 Deputy hit in the vest. I offered to send my wife down there with her .32 Mag Bisley. She can hit a 4 mph target 4 times (at least) with her 6 shooter!
The CHP, tho', are much better shots. They got a "failure to stop"-er this morning with only 2 shots!

Just kiddin' guys. God bless every one of our officers. It just sucks to have to put on a bullet-proof (or not) vest every day just to do your job. I'm glad every one of them is on the job.

I was wondering, what other ideas have people come up with to practice running shots, especially elephant?

book a safari with Ivan?

During a PAC ele hunt in Namibia in 2007 we were driving along a trail next to a dry riverbed. I noticed that our speed was ca. 50 km/h. About 300 yards away on the other side of the river a small ele herd was running in the same direction we were driving. They held the same speed as we did.
This answers you question only partially. An attacking ele would probably have to accelerate from standing still. So, how high his is speed when hitting you depends also how far away he is when he decides to attack you. Ultimately he might reach the above mentioned 50 km/h.
Don't know how fast a buff is, sorry.
Cheers, Hans


The setup is mosty just for some fun shooting practice, but I might as well make it as authentic as possible!

Any thoughts on the matter from those who might know would be appreciated.[/QUOTE]

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
book a safari with Ivan?

Bloody road kill!

Would be nice souvenir pickups though,



On the topic, saw some photos of a good target shoot with excellent life sized cutouts of elephant heads.

A problem with all of these, is they lack depth, as depth is important for the actual placement point.

Still good fun and practice anyway.