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Steve - Find the book "Tigrero", an autobiography of a fellow in Brazil who did the spear in the Jaguar (cat) thing. One thing that inpressed me was that Jaguars don't like being chased by dogs and sometimes left a trail of dead and skinned up hounds. | |||
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Ah - Knew I'd read it somewhere..... thanks! | |||
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Several years ago I booked a 21 day tuskless elephant hunt in Zimbabwe. One evening I had a very interesting coversation with my PH about the attitudes of visiting clients. This PH has a huge amount of experience both as a PH and as a Parks Ranger. He broke his clients down into two primary categories, collectors and hunters. According to him the vast majority of clients fall into the collector category. He defined a collector as a client whose main interest was shooting a set number and species of animals. While there are always exceptions collectors generally are not very interested in the hunting aspect and just follow behind the PH and shoot when the PH tells him to. They are not very interested in understanding the fine points of tracking, the meaning of sign or especially reading animal behavior. The typical attitude is "let's shoot this one and get on to the next animal on my list". The measure of the success of the their hunt is the number and size of animals in the bag. The true hunter, by his definition, is the one whose goal is to learn how to hunt the species they are seeking. This type of hunter is constantly asking questions such as "How can you tell how fresh this elephant track is?"or "How did you know that elephant was going to charge before she did?" The true hunter measures his success by how much he learns and not by how much he kills. At the end this type of hunter commonly wants to do the hunt on his own or at least get to the point where he is confident that he can do it alone. On my 21 day tuskless hunt I only took one tuskless cow and many would consider my hunt a near failure. I consider it a complete success as I was able to approach over 50 cow herds many in the jess. Excitement and danger was ever present and my PH was very patient in answering my constant questions. I learned a huge ammount of information on elephant hunting although I didn't reach the point of knowledge and experience that would give me confidence to hunt elephants without a PH. It took a couple more trips before that goal was reached. 465H&H | |||
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Will, I'd no more wear black gloves on safari that I would hunt with a TC Encore or Marlin 45-70.............  AD | ||
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465H&H, That pretty much sums up my way of thinking...it is a constant learning experience. Having my son along only makes that experience more rewarding. He has constant questions, some I can answer, some I can't, some even the PH has to think hard about. Maybe one day I'll get it all together and feel confident enough to try it alone, but I take great comfort in having another set of eyes and hands around. For now, I still have those questions that need answered! | |||
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i agree, if i just wanted to kill animals I'd go buy up a bunch of cheap old cows and shoot them. sorry about the spelling, I missed that class. | |||
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Hey Will, I can't see your signature photo any longer but you're "safari attire" would indicate you may have also hunted with MS before   "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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Life and Death are the same part of the circle of life. Not one without the other. The Kill is an important and integral part of the hunt. I have no problem with the kill at all. | |||
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The hunter vs. collector thing caught my eye... Somehow, going to a different place to hunt strange animals didn't turn me on as much as hunting local animals that lived on the land I lived on -- that would connect me to the land if I ate them (sounds strange to read what I just wrote, but there you have it). Traveling around a little has softened this feeling. But I have not really liked the idea of hunting a list... it sounds too much like "this is thursday, so I must be hunting duiker." There's no more connection with the activity than a shooting gallery -- at least, that's how it strikes me in contemplating the bankrolling of a hunting experience. I think I'd like to go after a single species -- buffalo or loxodontus africanus -- and get to know what I'm hunting. As I've learned more, its become much more of an interesting proposition. I wonder how many of those collectors would look like hunters if they didn't have a list, a limited number of days, and a good chunk of savings riding on it? Then, again, T. Roosevelt's trip to Africa was partly funded by the Smithsonian to "collect specimins" (I got funny looks when I asked how the mounts on display there had been collected -- I'd hoped someone might have said they were T. R.'s). Dan | |||
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Sorry to drag an old topic back to the top, but I'm trying to catch up on old posts. I think this is very relavent to the post in the Hunting Reports, that has some 45,000+ hits. Mark Jackson  | |||
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Mark I regard myself 100% as a hunter and definitely not a 'collector' but I would be much more damned angry than sheephunter if I forked out a tremendously high daily rate for 21 days in Tanzania for a choice concession with my main hunting objects being ELEPHANT, GOOD LION and GOOD BUFFALO, and then got shafted to a different concession by deceit where there was NO DECENT or ANY opportunities at any of these, and I came home with just a below average cape buffalo and a few plains game. BTW I came home with a smaller cape buff than Sheephunters once and was happy considering the extraordinary circumstances of the hunt. It was a seven day hunt BTW not 21 days! For me personally it would be a once off opportunity for my life to spend that sort of money. All this "safaris are just there to make friends stuff", what do you call a "friend" who asks for money at the end of the visit? Personally I am buying some comradeship during the hunting, but principally I am buying a hunt. BUT I think it is better not to pollute this forum with the mess from the Hunting reports forum, don't you think? | |||
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My appologies. As I said, I was trying to plow through hundreds of posts and a reply seemed appropriate. This weekend, I'll shoot a big boar in your honor, or toast a drink, but regardless of what's in the ice chest at hunts end, it will be a good hunt. I assure you. Cheers. Mark Jackson | |||
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I liked this thread because it got me thinking about what I hope for in a hunt. Underneath all of this is the $'s -- it doesn't go away. Given how much (some of us) we must sacrifice to go on such a hunt, its hard not to think about what's at stake. The points about the infamous 21 day hunt with switched concessions make that quite clear. For the most part, the questions on this thread mostly managed to stay at the level of what we would LIKE to have on a hunt, and what we would be satisfied with. A while ago, there was a picture of an elephant with a tusk growing out sideways through its cheek. The comment was that most Americans wouldn't pony up to pay to shoot that ele, but some Europeans would because they like strange things. That thread also got me thinking... yeah -- I'd have been proud to go home with that as a trophy -- a trophy of conscience. By commitments (I'm cooking the turkey), I didn't go hunting today. So I ended up spending a good chunk of my Thanksgiving with you guys. It has been a surprisingly good time; I've enjoyed the company. There is a peculiar sense (and I had already counseled myself not to say so -- so much for listening to my own advice), that this group of folks feels much like a family that has recently gone through a crisis, and is having their first holiday together afterwards. Lots of raw nerves. Also, like a family, it is composed of folks not all of our choosing -- it is just who happens to have affiliated themselves into this cybercommunity. So -- my own sense is that we might all be a little better off to lighten up a bit; at the same time, one of the things I like about this place is that it hasn't shied away from the dung when it has to be shoveled. N'gagi, wish I could share that drink with you. Skol! Dan | |||
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What about dart hunts? You have to get very close, and, the risk is considerable. You get to touch the animal, and, it gets up, and takes off. The entire thing seems a bit sketchy to me, but fun. GS | |||
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For me it's the entire experience from the anticipation during preparation for the hunt, getting up at an ungodly hour when you've only slept a few hours, closing your eyes and listening for movement a ways off, the stalk, the kill, the cleaning of the carcas -- every aspect of the hunt gives me some sort of pleasure. I've had hunts were I spent days in the woods and come up empty handed, but were they good hunts? You bet you #&s they were! "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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