Calibers For Dangerous Game
Jan 2009 issue Rifle Magazine
By our own Ganyana


Well I’m sure many of you have read Ganyana’s article in the Jan 2009 issue of Rifle Magazine. I read it and I’d like to ask those who have read it, do you agree, across the board, with all his statement in this article? There are five distinct parts to that article to agree with or reject, vote your choice, and the reason for that choice.

Question:
No1 Do you agree with his idea that the 9.3X62 is big enough for Buffalo, and Elephant ?

Choices:
Yes
No

Question:
No2 Do you agree with Ganyana that most Americans tend to bring too large calibers to Africa?

Choices:
Yes
No

Question:
No3 Do you agree that bullet design is far more important than caliber

Choices:
Yes
No

Question:
No4 Do you agree that older PHs tend to automaticlly shoot a back-up shot into the clients animal?

Choices:
Yes
No

Question:
No5 Do you are that shooting a back-up shot on a client's animal, should be left up to the PH, if it involves dangerous game?

Choices:
Yes
NO

 

#1 - Personally, I simply do not have the degree of experience this man does - far from it in fact!!! I believe the same can be said for virtually everyone here. If he says it's enough that's good enough for me. There is so much history behind this caliber's performance and as I believe Taylor said of it, "it's like a good old farm horse, it just plods along doing what it's supposed to do..." Perhaps in the hands of someone incapable of accurate shot placement bigger MIGHT be better, but I feel there is no substitute for proper shot placement and those incapable of it have no business in that field!
#2 I believe this goes without saying - generally. Americans, particularly those new to Africa tend to be terribly romantic about it and big bores are an intricate part of that. We've all been approached by friends and aquaintences with questions about how BIG a rifle we use even for plains game. It only stands to reason that this would be true.
#3 See #1
#4 I have no experience in this either. Once again Ganyanna has been around that barn a lot more times than most not to mention his non-hubting interaction with such men. Again, I defer to his experience.
#5 This time I do have a personal opinion and the answer is ABSOLUTELY! The PH knows a lot more about the circumstances than the visiting client. Additionally, he is RESPONSIBLE for the safety of the client and recovery of his animal. Overzealousness asside (no names mentioned) an assurance shot isn't necessarily a bad thing. This of couse is totally different than shooting the client's animal from under him!

As Oupa said only a PH with many years of experience could stand toe to toe with Ganyana in an arguement over the 5 points Mac has brought up but we all have our opinions.

1. The 9.3's are great but the 30-06 with a 220 solid will kill anything if applied properly.

2. I would imagine that American's could be guilty of being over gunned. A lot of hunters I speak to are very enamored with the big guns when they would be better served with a 375.

3. I think particularly with expanding bullets that a smaller caliber shooting the very best bullets such as the TSX can definitely kill better than a bigger caliber with conventional bullets.

4. My experience has been that older PH's have no desire to shoot your game unecessarily.

5. Definitely when the PH thinks it is necessary he should just shoot. The client and the PH do have to have discussed this so nobody will be unpleasantly surprised.

Mark

1. Re: whether 9.3 is enough gun for buff and elephant. No, for me it isn't, assuming that I have a choice. I have used bigger bores, up to .500 caliber, on such game and have seen how much harder they hit. I would not willingly be without a bigger bore when after buff or elephant. Would I use a 9.3 if I had no other option? Yes. Would I be thrilled about it? No.

2. Re: whether Americans bring too much gun to Africa. That question covers a lot of ground. But I would answer it this way: As long as any given hunter can handle the recoil and shoot a larger caliber well, he should take it to Africa when after buff or elephant. If he can't handle a big bore, then IMHO he should drop down to something more manageable, such as a .375.

3. Re: whether bullet design is more important than caliber. It's not that simple. Both are important. Excellent solids and softs now make it hard to choose a bad bullet. But as is noted above, even with a good bullet up the spout, I still want it to be a BIG good bullet!

4. Re: older PHs being trigger happy. I don't know. But it's unacceptable to me and I would not put up with it.

5. Re: leaving it to the PH's discretion whether to fire back-up shots. I would say yes and no. I am okay with it as long as the PH understands and agrees that he is to shoot only to avoid personal injury to a member of the hunting party or to bring down a wounded animal. If his discretion might lead him to shoot under other circumstances, then see answer to Question No. 4 above.

You can read the article in question here:

http://www.riflemagazine.com/m...PDF/ri242partial.pdf

1. I bow to Ganyana's superior and first-hand knowledge of the subject but based upon my experience with the 9.3x62 I would tend to believe that it is sufficient in the hands of someone who knows the rifle, knows the anatomy of the animal, is using a premium bullet, and can place that bullet accurately. This also presumes the PH is standing by with a "stopping rifle" just in case.
2. "Magnum-itis" is definitely an affliction of Americans. If dangerous game is not part of the hunt, your deer rifle, with premium bullets and good shot placement is enough for African plains game. For dangerous game, the 9.3x62 or the 375 is all many people can handle. The PH will have the stopping rifle. Nonetheless, if you are willing to make the commitment to practice, take as much gun as you can handle.
3. It's tough to go "either or" on that question. I'd prefer to vote "C", all of the above.
4. I suspect that is how they got to be "older PH's"!
5. The PH is responsible for the safety of the client, the trackers, and himself. It's the PH's call.

CALIBERS FOR DANGEROUS GAME
Article BY GANYANA
In Jan 2009issue of RIFLE MAGAZINE
Page 74

Ganyana’s first paragraph is about client’s take on what to bring out to Africa, and the American’s love for the bigger is always better attitude! I would say right off for most Americans he is correct when dangerous game is mentioned in the same sentence with the word AFRICA! This is especially true for those who have never hunted there, but IMO he is wrong about the Americans thinking big bore starts at .40 calibers.

It is true that big bore are placed from .400 cal up, by the makers of DGR rifles, and ammo. In most cases the over .400 cal is simply what most think is the best idea for hunting things like cape Buffalo, or Elephant, so that is what comes out when a discussion about dangerous game. In most places I frequent that is the case. However, most Americans who have not hunted Africa think a 30-06 is a big bore, and if you want to get really big get a 375H&H. IMO, the 375H&H is good advice for a client going to Africa, especially with only one rifle.

I have to agree with Ganyana that the over .400 is not necessarily the end all for dangerous game. I personally love the old 1912, 375H&H, and have some impressive results on Buffalo with that round, using soft points for the first shot, followed by all solids for the going away shots! I also like the 9.3s and I use both quite a bit. A well-balanced Mouser 98 chambered for the 9.3X62 is a valuable addition to one’s gun rack, or in a nice light S/S double rifle, chambered for 9.3X74R, is quick, and both are easy to learn to shoot well. Both the bolt rifle, and the double rifle benefit from the addition of a QD attached scope.
Where legal for Buffalo, the 9.3s are also fine choices for a one-rifle safari for a client, but for a client that knows his rifle, and the anatomy of the buffalo. Pachyderms, however, are not the only dangerous game in Africa, or in many other places in the world. Take the African lion, and leopard, and the Alaskan coastal brown bear, for instance. These animals not only take different types of hunting to be successful, but need accurate rifles chambered for cartridges that produce shock in addition to penetration, and proper bullets for each of the species. Here IMO the 9.3s, and the 375s are the best choice, both in CRF bolt rifles, and in Double rifles, and for over bait even strong single shots, like the Ruger No1 .

Ganyana now uses the 500/416 double rifle for backing his clients. That is a fine choice, but there are others as well. As Ganyana mentions in his well done article, the rifles like the 375s, the 450/400, and all the 416s are fine client rifles as well. Again, in my opinion, the best follow-up cartridge for the PH is only helped by being chambered in a reliable double rifle. Nothing in the world is better suited to the back-up job than a double rifle chambered properly, and being held by a PH who knows his rifle! It is not only a well designed rifle for that purpose, but also inspires confidence in his client, letting him relax, so he can shoot his best. That is a plus for the PH as well as the client.

Finally, I feel the automatic firing a Back-up shot on the client’s game without prior, discussion on that matter between the client and the PH. Is not a good practice. However I personally have no problem with this on dangerous game, especially if I make a not so perfect shot. I will usually ask the PH if he automatically fires back-up shots on dangerous game or does he only do that at the client’s request, or if the client’s shot is marginal at best. His answers will dictate what my next response is. The PH’s job is to find the client the best trophies he can, and if possible let the client shoot his own animals. However, I say the best PH will use his own judgment, and shoot when it is NEEDED, unless asked to do so automatically. Like Ganyana, I have issues with this subject, but pre-hunt discussion will take care of any problem I think.
On a personal note, I find Ganyana to be a PH I would hunt with anytime, because of his vast experience, and I simply agree with many of his takes on what is needed to hunt dangerous game, as long as I do my part.
This article, along with the recent friendly combat article between Boddington’s, and Robertson’s opposing views on bullets for Africa, leaves Ganyana exactly half way between these two men, with his take on the hunting needs in Africa! All three are right, in different ways, and no matter which you agree with most, you will not be going wrong, as long as you put the first pill where it will do the most good. Only when you botch that first shot badly, is when your choice will become far more important than before.

I think there are many ways to skin a cat.

The viewpoints shared by Kevin Robertson, Craig Boddington and Ganyana illustrate that to some degree.

#1 I think the 9.3 will work both for buff and elephant.

#2 I think most Americans shoot too much gun, and it is not limited to Africa.

#3 Absolutely

#4 I have no idea.

#5 If/when I ever get to Africa, I will have a discussion with the PH. But my thinking right now is I would have issues with a PH automatically taking a back up shot.

If it is truly needed, by all means. But the devil is the details of defining "truly needed" and every circumstance can be different from PH to PH.

quote:

Originally posted by SDhunter:
...#2 I think most Americans shoot too much gun, and it is not limited to Africa...

Well worth repeating!!! That said it is an individual thing and I have no qualms about anyone using any suitable caliber. I do however reserve the right to disagree with him!

I'm no expert on African hunting, having only been there once. But I do have a half-century+ hunting in N.A., mostly big game.

I bought the mag, read the article and enjoyed it. If I were going to do a poll on agreement or disagreement (yes or no), I would definitely give a third, or even fourth, option. That's reflected in the answers by various posters. And I might change some of the questions that reflect my perceptions of the article.

For instance: the picture of the lioness with the two bullet holes... the smaller from the .416 TSX and the larger from the Oryx in 9.3mm. The conclusion of the article by Ganyana is that the 9.3 did a better job than the .416 because of the bullet used. And the bullet used is therefore more important than caliber. Most responders want that qualified, and some say they would prefer both (right bullet + bigger caliber), which I would agree with.

But the photo itself doesn't prove anything, though what Ganyana says may be partially true in that case, yet it's NOT evident from the photo. A smaller exit hole vs. a larger exit hole proves nothing. It's well known to experienced hunters of big game that the Nosler P. (which Ganyana endorses)tends to make small exit wounds because of the thinner front part of the jacket folding back against the shank of the bullet, or even tumbling and exiting base first. I shot a 1100 - 1200 lb bull moose with 250gr Nosler Partitions from a 340WBY leaving muzzle at an honest 3000 fps. Bull was 165yds distant... the exit of the first shot, from nearly broadside barely nicked the offside shoulder and the "hole" was about dime-size! But blood and lung tissue was blown more than 10 feet across the bushes on the far side! The second shot, missing the first by 3", put the bull down but that bullet NEVER exited! It was found as a bulge under the hide 3" from the first exit wound!

So, I'm not impressed by the "size" of the exit wound! Plus, the fact, that the shot from the 9.3 was a much better placed shot than that of the .416 TSX... which was high through the forward part of the lungs, nearly missing them at the top (depending on angle).

As I say, Ganyana may be partially right in his conclusion, but the photo sure doesn't prove anything, other than the second shot being placed perfectly and the first being a bit far back and high IMV.

BTW, I'm probably "over gunned" for most of my hunting, most of the time, whatever that means... BUT I like it that way!

And, I'm only 1/2 American!

If you consider the #1 and #2 forums here for hits are the African hunting and big bore forum, I think question #2 answers itself.

I've always been on the lighter cartridge side of the equation (question #2). A .243 for deer and elk for awhile, went up to a .270 for deer, elk and bear. I placed my shots well and never felt undergunned. But those animals are only dangerous if you're dragging them down a mountain by the horns and lose your footing (don't ask me how I know that!).

So as my son's say now I'm over compensating. If all goes well, next fall I'll be toting a 505 Gibbs after deer and elk while I save up for an African safari ...



Chuck

If I ever get a 1/4 of Ganyana's experience while hunting I will die a happy man.

I would say Ganyana is spot on...

During six days of hard walking I thought how nice it would be to have a light-weight 9.3x62 to carry.

After firing five .458s into one buff at the culmination of the six days, I thought about maybe taking a heavier rifle next time.

Some PH's routinely shoot the clients dangerous game(see boddington on buff). Some do not. I've never had a disagreement in this area. If I trust the judgement of the PH in this regard based on prior discussion I have no problem with him shooting. But to shoot every time with no evaluation? There are too many options. The key is prior discussion IMO. If I create a dangerous situation with a poor shot he should shoot early and often, just give me a chance.