Beautiful tusks!!! I would love see a photo of the entire elephant, and read about the details of your hunt. Congratulation's!!!

The staining on those tusks is fabulous. Lot's of character. Congrats.

Has no one found a scale yet?

Brad, now that you are back in "civilization", did you ever put those tusks on a scale??

I can't see them weighing less than 80-85 lbs, very possibly more. But then again, I'm not exactly the world's foremost expert on judging ivory...

- mike

Something is not right here ...

I left the tusks in Munyamadzis camp, there is no scale in the camp. I am sure Andrew will chime in when he knows what they weigh.

So 505, what's the story? Those tusks are fantastic. But, to take a bull like that on a lechwe hunt, leaves a lot to be told.

The elephant was found dead in a pan on Andrews place in the Luangwa while we were there. They are unbelievable when you put your hands on them. And to think, Andrew told ZAWA "no thanks" when they offered him a handfull of Ele permits this year. He said he just didn't see the point because he wasn't confident he could take a 100 pounder.

Thanks for the clarification, Brad. Lovely ivory, regardless of how it came about.

- mike

Sad, so sad. I would bet they are about 70 and 74 with the measurements given. It will all come down to the size of the nerve cavity. I think they could range anywhere from 55 to 75 each with those measurements. I sure wouldnt want to try and guess the weight on the hoof. How do you ph's judge the weight on a live animal? If my assumption is right and the range is at least as wide as my estimate, it could mean the difference between a very happy and a pissed off client. In my mind any ele over 50 lbs is nothing to be disgruntled about. There are those who dont think the same, have spent a bostload of money, and have done it several times. I dont envy you guys at times like that. So again, how do you do it?

Mike,
I hear what you are saying, and have no doubt there are "hunters" out there that would shoot that ele, be speechless when they laid their hands on those massive tusks, then turn their noses up when they were weighed and didn't meet their expectation. However, that would be a shame and would put a name to much of what is wrong with those who take part in this sport. I went by my brothers on Saturday and held the big tusks that came from the Save last year (60lbs), and although they are great tusks, they don't look or feel like they even came from the same species.

Yes, hunting has become very much a "numbers" game, hasn't it? I'm as guilty as the next person, but I think a lot of it comes from safari literature. I can think of at least one prominent writer, who never seems to omit the measurements on trophies taken. Sets expectations for (less experienced?) hunters. In the end, it is such a question of luck, being at the right place at the right time. But I guess I also have to plead guilty to a feeling of awe and desire faced with a really good trophy.

- mike

I stand by my original statement that they are beautiful, Brad, weight-be-damned.

Now the question for me becomes: What happens to the ivory? Do they go to the gov't or what? I have no idea the policy on "pick-ups" in any African countries.

And are we ever going to get the story on the new double?

THAT IS ONE MOTHER OF A WARTHOG WELL DONE

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Smith:
How do you ph's judge the weight on a live animal?

It differs from area to area, but is Zimbabwe one of the formulas is:

LxC-5=W

Where L represents length(in feet) of tusk protruding from the lip, C represents circumference of tusk(in inches) at the lip, the output "W" is the weight in pounds.

The "-5" that is subtracted from the total when the ivory has a normal taper and is not too broomed off.

Obviously adjustments are made for tusks that are very broomed, or tusks that don't carry their weight out to the tips.

Then their other considerations such as shop of tusk's cross section(round or oval) and size of nerve(usually larger in young animals.

Looking at the picture (and note the longest measure 2m) I would say that there is probably 1.2m coming out from the lip and the circumference here was 48cm. Inside the lip was 50cm.

So what is that in inches and pounds?

Note the nerve cavity was fairly shallow.

quote:

And are we ever going to get the story on the new double?

You mean this one?



Andrews Krieghoff 470NE, it is rare I find a gun that fits me and this one it like my broken in hat (only prettier). I am working this next week to figure out how to get it back to the states, hopefully when I get through that Andrew will not have realized what a fool he is for letting this rifle go.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Looking at the picture (and note the longest measure 2m) I would say that there is probably 1.2m coming out from the lip and the circumference here was 48cm. Inside the lip was 50cm.

So what is that in inches and pounds?

Note the nerve cavity was fairly shallow.

4 feet and 19 inches. Using the Zim formula that works out to 71 pounds(4x19-5).

But this formula is for Zim and is just a guideline. The formula may be way off for Zambia.

BTW, IIIRC, PHC said that the Luangwa's elephants had long thin East Africa type ivory. I guess this elephant didn't get the memo.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Looking at the picture (and note the longest measure 2m) I would say that there is probably 1.2m coming out from the lip and the circumference here was 48cm. Inside the lip was 50cm.

So what is that in inches and pounds?

120cm = 3.94 feet x 18.9" (48cm) = 74.47 lbs
74.47 - 10% = 67,02 Lb

Only issue I see with your math is that you are using circumference where the original formula called for diameter.

wicked EU way - that is for a pair

***my bad - therefore 3.94 x 6.01 = 23.68 lb naah

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
Only issue I see with your math is that you are using circumference where the original formula called for diameter.

It was supposed to be circumference, not diameter, I went back and fixed it.

I have carried a 50lb pack in my early days but I could not of carried one of those tusks for very long.

Brad and I (in the building industry) sort of agreed around mid 70's to 80 pounds. I am not an elephant hunter so your guess is as good as mine.

I stand by my estimate of 70 and 74. I am basing this mostly on the circumference. I am certainly no expert and not even journeyman as you would say in the trades. I have seen many ele but only shot one myself. I find the price a bit steep for us working stiffs so it might be the only one I shoot as well. That dosnt mean I cant tag along for backup and I think I am a fair estimate when it comes to this. Of course having the circumference and length given really makes it fairly simple. Even then there is a large margin for error and that is where experience comes in. Maybe Will, one of the phs like Buzz, or one of you guys who have shot multiple elephant can chime in here and add some of that.

Brad, As far as bringing the double home, why sweat it until next year? You know you want to go back so just plan the trip end and rifle import to come together at the same time. Or are you afraid Andrew really will change his mind?

If the PH knows what each of his trackers weigh, then compare the tusks w/ the smallest guy and then the biggest.
That'll tell you if it's closer to 70lbs or 90lbs.

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
A simple "exploratory" hunt to the Kafue and a quick trip to "see" the Luangwa turns into a new double and more than I can afford. Please post current mortgage rates and referral on good Family Law attorney. No scale in camp, please post best estimate.

since your wife is an lawyer, good luck on finding someone to represent you! and if you keep this hot streak up, you are going to need a good lawyer. however having spent time in hunting camp with the 2 of you, i think you are safe. if there was ever a wife more supportive of a husband's hunting passion than your wife, i surely haven't met her.