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question for the PHs
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Picture of Thunder Head
posted
Not to take anything away from Bengo and nixons showdown with a not quite dead buff.

In that situation where your off to the side off the charge should the client be pooring lead into the shoulders or try to spine the animal?
The spine or brain seems like an awful small target, where the high shoulder shot is probably more doable for the average guy.


I have walked in the foot prints of the elephant, listened to lion roar and met the buffalo on his turf. I shall never be the same.
 
Posts: 813 | Location: In the shadow of Currahee | Registered: 29 January 2009Reply With Quote
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Picture of MacD37
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Hey Thunder, I’m not a PH but if I’m the target of a mad buffalo, here’s what I want!

I want somebody to be slamming that bastard in the heart/lung/shoulder /spine area as fast and often as they can, and I’ll be doing the same from to front! Eeker

………………………………ME!.. BOOM.THE PH!. BOOM

ANOTHER CLIENTBOOM.......................................... holycow


....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

 
Posts: 14634 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: 08 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Picture of DLS
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Having been charged by a very angry buffalo, I can assure you that just hitting the damned thing is a feat in itself. When you're a client who is trying to not get stomped, aiming doesn't happen, you just point at black stuff and pull the trigger.
 
Posts: 3939 | Location: California | Registered: 01 January 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
you just point at black stuff and pull the trigger.

+1 on that. I was charged once, about five years ago we were following a wounded buff. The PH fired once then his bolt action .458 jammed. Initially I couldn't see the buff but I could see the bushes moving our way and could hear the crashing getting very close and everyone yelling! I ran toward the PH and there he was, 30 feet away!! I put both barrels into the "center of the black", buff went down, gave a death bellow, end of story. Damned glad I was carrying a .500 NE double. Was I aiming?...sort of.

Geronimo
 
Posts: 816 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 14 April 2004Reply With Quote
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Picture of Todd Williams
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quote:
Originally posted by Geronomo:
quote:
you just point at black stuff and pull the trigger.

+1 on that. I was charged once, about five years ago we were following a wounded buff. The PH fired once then his bolt action .458 jammed. Initially I couldn't see the buff but I could see the bushes moving our way and could hear the crashing getting very close and everyone yelling! I ran toward the PH and there he was, 30 feet away!! I put both barrels into the "center of the black", buff went down, gave a death bellow, end of story. Damned glad I was carrying a .500 NE double. Was I aiming?...sort of.

Geronimo


And there you have it. Positive proof that the double 500 is MORE adequate than the scoped 375!

BOOM

Not to be too flippant about it but, this story illustrates how your PH, even though highly trained and competent, and carrying a stopper caliber for when the butter gets thin, is still human and not infallible, nor is his equipment. It is possible for you to find yourself in a situation of needing to save your own bacon. Do you want to be carrying the "minimun" required rifle under those circumstances? Maybe so, but not me!
 
Posts: 8534 | Registered: 09 January 2011Reply With Quote
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Picture of ledvm
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The "high shoulder" and spine are almost silhouetted.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM

A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House

No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991.
 
Posts: 38477 | Location: Gainesville, TX | Registered: 24 December 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
The "high shoulder" and spine are almost silhouetted.


BTW when a buff is facing me, I try to put the bullet just under the chin. This will usually break the spine at the shoulder where it dips down and drop the animal on the spot
 
Posts: 816 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 14 April 2004Reply With Quote
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Picture of shakari
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I don't know about the incident mentioned and have a shite internet connection so haven't bothered searching for it but FWIW, a determined charge can only be stopped absolutely by a good solid hit to the central nervous system and anyone who succeeds in stopping said charge by just blazing away is quite honestly, very lucky.

Also FWIW, a buff usually starts a charge with his head held high, then he stretches his neck with slightly lowered head in mid charge (as he gets up to speed) and lowers it just before the anticipated impact. The best way to prevent said impact is to shoot for whatever part of the central nervous system is best presented at the time.

At the last moment and if the shooter has the presence of mind, he can shoot above the head and into the spine but he'd better be ready to move bloody quickly because if he doesn't, he'll have the (live or dead) buffalo (depending on the accuracy of the shot) piling into him.






 
Posts: 12415 | Registered: 01 July 2002Reply With Quote
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Charging or not, if a buffalo is close enough, I shoot it in the head.

I have done that many times with a 375, and they all dropped at the shot.

Trying to shoot a charging buffalo anywhere else is not advisable.


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Posts: 69314 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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Picture of fairgame
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Ponodoro Taylor's advice to a young PH and much the same question was to put the bullet into the chest so that the buffalo will not go on to worry anyone else.

I have not hunted many buffalo and there are many more here that are more qualified to answer. I have had only two charges and distinctly remember having to snap shoot at the centre of the black mass, and fortunately with good result. One was shot under the chin and severed the spine and one was over the boss into the thick of the neck which missed the spine but stunned the animal enough to put a second bullet in. On both occasions I would have been advantaged if I had a double rifle.


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Posts: 10004 | Location: Zambia | Registered: 10 April 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by shakari:
I don't know about the incident mentioned and have a shite internet connection so haven't bothered searching for it but FWIW, a determined charge can only be stopped absolutely by a good solid hit to the central nervous system and anyone who succeeds in stopping said charge by just blazing away is quite honestly, very lucky.

Also FWIW, a buff usually starts a charge with his head held high, then he stretches his neck with slightly lowered head in mid charge (as he gets up to speed) and lowers it just before the anticipated impact. The best way to prevent said impact is to shoot for whatever part of the central nervous system is best presented at the time.

At the last moment and if the shooter has the presence of mind, he can shoot above the head and into the spine but he'd better be ready to move bloody quickly because if he doesn't, he'll have the (live or dead) buffalo (depending on the accuracy of the shot) piling into him.


+1 tu2 Merry Xmas Steve
 
Posts: 2731 | Registered: 23 August 2010Reply With Quote
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Picture of shakari
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quote:
Originally posted by fujotupu:
quote:
Originally posted by shakari:
I don't know about the incident mentioned and have a shite internet connection so haven't bothered searching for it but FWIW, a determined charge can only be stopped absolutely by a good solid hit to the central nervous system and anyone who succeeds in stopping said charge by just blazing away is quite honestly, very lucky.

Also FWIW, a buff usually starts a charge with his head held high, then he stretches his neck with slightly lowered head in mid charge (as he gets up to speed) and lowers it just before the anticipated impact. The best way to prevent said impact is to shoot for whatever part of the central nervous system is best presented at the time.

At the last moment and if the shooter has the presence of mind, he can shoot above the head and into the spine but he'd better be ready to move bloody quickly because if he doesn't, he'll have the (live or dead) buffalo (depending on the accuracy of the shot) piling into him.


+1 tu2 Merry Xmas Steve


you too my friend and I hope yours is warmer than mine is...... we're freezing our arses off over here! Confused






 
Posts: 12415 | Registered: 01 July 2002Reply With Quote
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The old advice (for the man being charged) was to hit the buff low in the chest with the right barrel (soft point) and then wait until you couldn't miss a brain shot with the left barrel (solid). The logic is- A heart shot buff will seldom turn to finish off a victim it has tossed or run over, so if you fluff the brain (or spine shooting under the chin) at least it will only hit you once.

Having only ever faced buffalo charges when armed with a bolt action I have waited until I couldn't miss.

For a client or PH off to the side, a high shoulder shot that breaks the spine is the simplist way (and biggest target)...and the term 'belt feed' comes to mind - keep shooting until you hit the spine or weight of lead causes the legs to collapse Wink
 
Posts: 3026 | Location: Zimbabwe | Registered: 23 July 2003Reply With Quote
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I'm not a P.H. of course and I've only experienced only one buffalo charge. That said, I event occured at a totally unexpected moment when the rest of the safari party (except the game scout) was on one side of a tree and I was on the other. It was immediately evident that the result of what the buffalo started was going to be entirely up to me.

Believe it or not, I distinctly remember wondering "How the heck do the guys who do this for a living (and post on A.R.) shoot one of these suckers in the brain?"

As stated below, the oncoming buffalo was swinging (and bobbing) his head and a shot anywhere but the center of the chest (and through the heart) seemed like the only possibility in the second or so I had to think about it. Big Grin

Whatever, it worked.

From an earlier post by me:

quote:
With absolutely not the slightest bit of warning, just seventeen yards in front of me, the bush exploded in sun-dappled violence and multiple shades of gray, black, dirty browns and dusty tans. I saw Clement, still bent at the waist, spin to his left and then scurry backwards on a supporting hand. Lou could see nothing as the tree blocked his view and he was turned to the left somewhat, himself. (He later said that he initially thought Clement had stepped on a snake.)

As for me, I had not the least doubt as to what was happening. A big grey-black hulk was at full-stride coming directly at my body. I remember nothing about how I was holding my rifle, flipping down the safety or raising my gun to my shoulder. It all just happened. I clearly remember stepping forward and to the right to clear the tree instead of getting behind it. Damn Marine in me, I guess? You know, Semper Fi and attack the ambush, don’t run from it.

Burned in my memory is that beautiful, over-sized white front bead appearing in the shallow “V” of the rear sight. Boss and horns covering the brain was my instant realization as the buffalo was swinging his head in what I can only guess was his practice hook before sinking a horn in my belly.

It was absolutely slow motion. I forced the bead down into the chest and fired. The buffalo was at 12 steps (which I wobbly walked later). The 500 grain Hornady DGS hit the heart and the buffalo staggered and turned slightly to my right with the impact. I'm not sure if I ever took my rifle from my shoulder to work the bolt, but I know that the second shot was almost instantaneous with the first and about 3” higher.

By now, the buffalo was closer than before, but would pass by me and towards Game Scout if he continued his new path. I fired again into his quartering-towards-me shoulder. I think he might have gotten powder burns. I had no thought of trying to brain him as what I was doing seemed to be working fine.

Upon impact of the third shot, a huge shutter coursed the bull from head to toe. Humped up now and turned some more, he passed Game Scout who, by now had his FN in battery and was raising it to shoot. As I worked the bolt of my Mauser for a forth shot, Lou, now not hindered by the tree and able to shoot since the buff had cleared me, fired his .470 into the buffalo’s right hip, shattering it and putting the Bill Collector on the ground.

From start to finish, I’ll bet that four seconds didn’t pass. I know that the buffalo never was more than 20 yards from us from charge to demise. Teddy Roosevelt called his leading the Rough Riders up Kettle and San Juan Hills as “My crowded hour”. Well, I damn well had my crowded little "moment" myself.


Here's the rest of the story if anyone gives a dadgum: An Unintended Buffalo


JudgeG ... just counting time 'til I am again finding balm in Gilead chilled out somewhere in the Selous.
 
Posts: 7765 | Location: GA | Registered: 27 February 2001Reply With Quote
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Head shot for me.I had a up close encounter with two of the three buff I shot.One was with PH Alan Shearing.I had shot the buff from about 100yds and broke his shoulder.The buff was standing but could or did not want to run off.We slowly came up to him within 20 yds and he stood there facing me while the other buff beside him thought about protecting him putting his head down and coming slightly in our direction before veering off.I then put a 500gr a-frame in the wounded buff`s head and he went right down and shook.The second buff was a buff I had shot from about 200yds with PH Richard Tabor.I spined him and he remained down until we approached within 10yds.When I was being given instructions to follow quickly and get into position for a dispatching shot,I was shocked to see it get up,eye me,put his head down and try to turn around a bush and come at me before his hind legs gave out on the inclination he was on and come sliding down and becoming pinned down behind that bush.
 
Posts: 11651 | Location: Montreal | Registered: 07 November 2002Reply With Quote
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Picture of fairgame
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quote:
As stated below, the oncoming buffalo was swinging (and bobbing) his head and a shot anywhere but the center of the chest (and through the heart) seemed like the only possibility in the second or so I had to think about it.

Whatever, it worked.


That be the norm.


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Posts: 10004 | Location: Zambia | Registered: 10 April 2009Reply With Quote
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