Following recent threads about the honesty of outfitters, Ph;s , Agents, etc here below is an email received by a friend of mine where the outfitter offers some late season offers for various hunts in TZ.

Not only is the outfitter not allocated a hunting block in Tanzania but they offer lioness hunting which is ILLEGAL! I have edited the name of the outfitter but can provide this via PM.

From: ****** Hunting Safaris
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 1:42 PM
To: *******
Subject: ******** Hunting Safaris - Tanzania package prices

Dear *******

Please find below the Prices for end of season hunts in Tanzania.

Trophy Package:
1 x Elephant 14 Days - $25,000.00
1 x Lion 10 Days - $21,900.00 1 Male + 1 female - $27,500.00
1 x Leopard 10 Days - $9,500.00
1 x Buffalo 7 Days - $7,500.00 2nd Buff - $1,500.00

Combination hunts:
1(each) x Elephant + Lion + Leopard + Buffalo 21 Days $58,000.00

1x Lion + 1x Leopard ---------------------- 10 Days $27,900.00

1x Lion + 1x Buffalo ---------------------- 10 Days $25,900.00

1x Leopard + 1x Buffalo ---------------------- 10 Days $13,995.00


Included: Accomodation, Professional hunters, Liscenses, Transport in the
hunting area.

Not included: Dip and pack of trophies, Taxidermy costs, Charter flights
will be aproximitly U$1,500.00.

If the hunting party consists of 4 or more hunters there will be a 15% discount.
Final confirmation will only be given apon recieval of 50% deposit.
Hunting closes on 23 Dec 2005.

To book, please email us at ******
or phone us on:
********

website: http://www.*******.co.za

Member of:
Safari Club International (SCI), Professional Hunters Association of South Africa (PHASA), Hunters Guild.


Join to receive our monthly NEWS LETTER - It's FREE!!

Tel:+*****| Cell:+******| Fax:+******
email: hunt@******.co.za P.O. Box 2796 | Bethlehem | 9700 | RSA


Be careful out there!

Bwanamich,

Please correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that many owners of hunting blocks sub-lease their areas to others to hunt on??!!

Saeed,
That is correct although from what i understand, that is illegal. It's a bit like "baiting" as a hunting method - the hunting regulations forbid it but it is generally accepted by the Wildlife Division

I am searching for some documentation to this effect so don't take my word for it.

If that is correct, then it seems that most of the block owners are breaking the law!!

I got the same e-mail but when I looked at their web-site it didn't show anything for Tanzania...just South Africa, Namibia and Botswana. They also had a really strange section on two types of lion hunts in South Africa.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
If that is correct, then it seems that most of the block owners are breaking the law!!

Unfortunately, so is shooting within 200m of vehicle, 500m of permanent water, etc. etc.!!

Tanzania is the KING of selective enforcement of law. You can get by for years breaking minor (??) laws without hassle, but should your competitors etc. be after you, then a few $$ will see you in deep S___t!!

quote:

Originally posted by jangili:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
If that is correct, then it seems that most of the block owners are breaking the law!!

Unfortunately, so is shooting within 200m of vehicle, 500m of permanent water, etc. etc.!!

Tanzania is the KING of selective enforcement of law. You can get by for years breaking minor (??) laws without hassle, but should your competitors etc. be after you, then a few $$ will see you in deep S___t!!

You must be right, otherwise so called PH like Mark Sullivan would never get away with what he does.

The info I get from TAHOA (Tanzania Hunting Outfitters Association)is that concession holders are NOT allowed to sub-lease their concessions.

They may have a "co-operation agreement" with another hunting company to use each others concessions BUT both companioes must be locally registered approved hunting companies. Furthermore, A TZ licensed PH must be affiliated to a TZ registered hunting company as an emnployee of that company. As a result an individual PH cannot make an agreement with another outfitter to hunt in their area UNLESS, the company who "employs" the PH agrees to it and writes a letter of "no objection" to the Director of Wildlife.

Of course this is al theory and in practice we all know what happens. Let sleeping dogs lie????

Hi Bwnanamich
Who is the outfitter? There is a outfitter in Bethlehem that runs canned lion hunts. (Starts with a K) I hate to badmouth anyone, especially a fellow outfitter, but I do believe this is an evil that can only be taken care of with the help of the hunting community at large. Can you let me know?
Regards, Karl Stumpfe

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
The info I get from TAHOA (Tanzania Hunting Outfitters Association)is that concession holders are NOT allowed to sub-lease their concessions.

They may have a "co-operation agreement" with another hunting company to use each others concessions BUT both companioes must be locally registered approved hunting companies. Furthermore, A TZ licensed PH must be affiliated to a TZ registered hunting company as an emnployee of that company. As a result an individual PH cannot make an agreement with another outfitter to hunt in their area UNLESS, the company who "employs" the PH agrees to it and writes a letter of "no objection" to the Director of Wildlife.

Of course this is al theory and in practice we all know what happens. Let sleeping dogs lie????

Ahhhh, where's 500Grains when you need the black pepper separated from the fly shit?
Dave

quote:

Originally posted by Karl S...Who is the outfitter?...

Karl, do a Google search on the address as listed ("Box 2796 Bethlehem RSA").

Hi 500grains Dan, ever present to put Your feet in it

Quoting Kukuzans ads "We have two options on hunting Lion in South Africa

Option 1.

We can hunt free roaming Lion in nature reserves.
This is a minimum of 21 x day hunt, with a reasonable success rate.
We can not determine, whether we are going to get a good male or a female. Prides or lone walking Lions can also move into areas where hunting is not allowed.

Option 2.

Lions that are roaming in fenced areas of 2,000 20,000 ha are hunted on foot.

There is always a member from Nature Conservation in attendance to ensure that these Lions are not drugged, and that the hunt is completely ethical, fair and legal.

This way we can assure you of a good quality animal in advance, on a 7 x day safari."


Geez!!! I got pissed of scuttling the half Selous size (1000 000ha) concession in the Central Africa Rep to extirpate a lion......and again in 6 weeks. The Kukunza info is coming to late Dan...........

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
Following recent threads about the honesty of outfitters, Ph;s , Agents, etc here below is an email received by a friend of mine where the outfitter offers some late season offers for various hunts in TZ.

Not only is the outfitter not allocated a hunting block in Tanzania but they offer lioness hunting which is ILLEGAL! I have edited the name of the outfitter but can provide this via PM.

Thanks Mich for posting these warnings from time to time. People can make up their own mind on them of course but forewarned is forearmed.

For what it is worth, the Outfitter mentioned / referred to here is not a member of The African Hunters Guild.

As already posted here by others, be carefull, do research and choose wisely.

Peter,
Just curious. On their website they say they are members of the Hunters Guild. Can that not be confused with the African Hunters Guild

Hi Jaco,

You are right and I think perhaps that is the inference they wish to achieve.

The South African publisher of a "well known" hunting gazette started up their own version of a Guild called the "Hunters Guild" early this year. We dealt with them as soon as we got to hear about it and reached an out of court settlement in the favour of The African Hunters Guild. Their "Hunters Guild" is no more.

Groete