Folks

Would people who have had actual field experience with this bullet in Africa share that info? I'm looking at using it in an area where I'm not likely to have to use it on anything that bites. I'm paticularly interested to see if anyone has used it in 375 yet.

THX

Mark

Mark, hopefully I will be able to give you a report in a few weeks. I am taking it to Zim in my 338 for Leopard and some small plains game.

MidwayUSA has two reports on this load on their web catalogue. Just look up the load and click on recommendations.

Over expanding peice of crap...

I don't like them.

I have seen one out of a .338 UM penetrate less than 8 inches after hitting shoulder on an elk and it made a right turn as well.

Started life as a 225gr bullet and ended life at under 130grs.

Not as advertised in my opinon.

BobC of this forum used Accubonds on his hunt last year. Do a search for .375 Accubonds or just Accubonds, several threads should appear.

Just because you are not hunting something that bites doesn't mean you won't have to shoot something that does bite (depends on where you are hunting).

Just a thought.

I've used the 30cal 200gr on three animals, two mule deer and one antelope, these were fired out of a 300Wby rifle. I've also taken one mule deer with a 140gr 270cal. The antelope was shot at 245yds, bullet exited leaving a moderate sized hole. The deer were all shot between 200 and 250yds, not one bullet made an exit, all found inside the chest cavity, shots were broadside. Anytime I get a broadside shot at a deer and shoot it with a 200gr bonded bullet, fired from a 300Wby I EXPECT an exit hole. I'll never fire another round at game when it's loaded with these bullets.

People have a love-hate relation with these. I used them in Namibia with excellent results in my 375 H&H at 2700 fps, and would do it again. Really think the problem is, you can't push them over 3000 fps in the speedsters without explosive expansion and consequent failure. Killed 13 animals total, from springbok up to kudu/zebra/blue WB. Plan on using them here in Idaho on black bear this next month and for elk in November, then again on another Namibia trip next year.

Trust our (myself and two buddies)experiences. Do a search on Accubonds fail on Deer here or especially on 24hourcampfire.com

I would never use them again in .30 cal at 3000 fps or more. Our 180gr. bullets failed to penetrate more than 6-10" on whitetailed deer chest, shoulder and pelvic shots! We put them througfh the test and they failed.

I would only use either TBBCs or Northfork bullets with absolute certainty- why? because again, I tried them out and they just plain penetrate AND expand- both in game and in test media.

I also shot 5 african plains game with a .300WSM using 180gr. TBBC's and all were 1 shot kills, great penetration.

Blank

Just finished going back through some previous discussions on the Accubond. Does seem that smoking velocity seems to be where the bullets fail. People had the same complaint about the Scirocco when it first came out. Explosive expansion at close range with the likes of the 300 RUM. I'm just looking for a load to make my 375 a little more versatile. I generally just load the 300 SAF and use it for anything and everything but it would be nice to have another load that would reach out a little further if hunting non DG in open country.

I actually just got back from the range and 78gr. or R15 shoot the Accubaond into about an inch. I have not chronographed it yet but I would not be surprised if the load gave 2800fps.

I still think as a general rule a guy should use one bullet in his safari rifle for the whole hunt and that bullet should be up to the toughest task it will encounter. In '07 I will hunt 3 countries and in the first country the chances are remote of meeting any dangerous game but the shooting could be long thus the Accubond. In the other countries I will be looking for DG so would resight with SAF's and a few solids.

Regards,

Mark

A friend and I used 150grn ACCUBOND'S from a 300wether on Mongolian Ibex in march, these animals went down as if hit by lightning, but no exit holes or recovered projectiles.
Adam.

Mark,

Check the story Accubonds in Africa that Richard Mann wrote for 24Hrcampfire.com.

I would post the link, but it seems to be "not found" today. I expect it will return.

jim

I posted my experience with Accubonds in Africa using a 300 Win Mag in the Reloading Section.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
Over expanding peice of crap...

I don't like them.

I have seen one out of a .338 UM penetrate less than 8 inches after hitting shoulder on an elk and it made a right turn as well.

Started life as a 225gr bullet and ended life at under 130grs.

Not as advertised in my opinon.

Dead on right! Same exact thing when I shot a Dall sheep out of 300 Jarrett. I barley could have weighed the bullet. 180 Grains to start. Not much what was left. Doesn't do good over 3000 fps. I don't like the bullet. I don't trust it!

Mark,

78grs of RL15 seems like a very hot load, is you bolt sticking at all? I was getting pressur signs with 76grs.

I tried the Accubonds in my Mod 70 375 H&H, they
just don't shoot well in my rifle so I have gone back to the Barnes X.

Ahmed

Ahmed

It is 2 grains over max according to the Barnes Manual but each gun has its own limits. I'm getting no bolt lift or ultra flat primers. That perticular rifle will easily handle 81gr. of IMR 4350 behind a 300 gr.SAF or 84gr. with the 270 SAF or Northfork. Please cut back before you try these loads eventhough a lot of the older stuff printed loads by Bob Hagel for instance list loads a couple of grains higher than the last 2 I listed. Product liability has a big effect on loading manuals.

Regards,

Mark

P.S. Sharp on your part to pick up that it was a warm load.

Mark,

What you see below are the reminants of the 225gr .338 Accubond that penetrated just at 8 inches made a right turn on the shoulder bone of an elk and completley failed to kill.

The picture you are looking at is as such. All that really remains of the bullet is jacket and a tiny little stub of the shank.

This bullet weighed in at 131.1grs

Mark quite simply if you are looking to increase the versitility of your .375 load it with 270gr Barnes TSX. They can be loaded to 2800 fps. They shoot unbelievably accurate out of my gun and every gun I've ever seen them used in.

I've shot hundreds and hundreds of head of game with Barnes X and probably 50 or more with TSX's I've never seen one fail. Ever.

The accubond is a loser and it is DEFINATLEY NOT a good bullet for large game and of course not even a consideration on thick skinned game.

Since we're talking about laods as well as bullets I'll pose this question. I've always used 79 grs of IMR 4350 with a 270 grain bullet in my Model 70 .375. However, I've pruchased a Dillon 550 progressive reloader and apparently they don't meter stick powder as well as they should. Sooooooooooooo--- any real world recommendations for ball or flake powder would be appreciated. I want to shoot lots of volume for the interim until we head for Tanzania next year, both 270 and 300 gr bullets. I will carefully load my hunting loads on the old single stage when I want absolute quality control. I figure to use Swift A Frames of Trophy Bonded. For practice though cheap will do just fine.

How would you compare the Scirocco's to the Accubonds?

yellowstone

If you gotta use the Dillon, then I suggest you try RE 15.

I experimented on a Sable with the 180 gr AcBond out of a 300 Win last year in Zim. Shot was 25 yds in thick brush. Bullet penetrated both shoulders and rested just under the hide on the off side. Perfect expansion, weight retention, and more than satisfactory penetration. I'll use them again this fall on mulies and elk if I get the chance. They seem okay to me.

It would seem the accubonds are not behaving any differently than a normal nos BT ??

I had excellent results using the 180 gr in my 300 Win on Plains Game.

quote:

Originally posted by Wolfgar:
How would you compare the Scirocco's to the Accubonds?

Wolfgar,

Pretty much the same bullet as far as construction and performance.

Any bullet can be made to fail, if driven fast enough. All bullets have design parameters. When driven within those limts most any bullet will do what it is supposed to do.

We as handloaders should respect those limits.

I have only used Accubonds on paper and they do group nicely out of my Whitworth and Safari Express.

IMO, Nosler has failed miserably on this bullet. They already have a high velocity intolerant bullet in their lineup, the Ballistic Tip. This was supposed to be a tougher version?? IMO, Nosler makes one decent hunting bullet, the same one they started out with 50 years ago.

Not a 375... but I killed a cow elk last fall with my 280 and a 160 accubond, fired at 2850 mv. She was standing broad side at about 350 yards away. Dumped her azz... Broke the spine, and the bullet exited.

But on that same hunt, I shot a muley buck with a 140 accubond with a mv of about 2950 fps, he was standing about 90 yards away, and the bullet didn't exit! killed him none the less but I was pretty disapointed in no exit. I recovered that one and it weighed right at 100grs. Here is a picture of the "exit" side. The bullet was found just under the skin.





I'm leaving for RSA Saturday morning, I'll be taking my 375 loaded with old and reliable 300gr Nosler Partitions for the big plains game, and will be taking my 280 with the 160 Accubonds for the littler stuff. I'll give ya'll a report when I get back if I kill anything with the 280...

I agree with John, the Accubond is a over-glorified Ballistic tip.

While some have had success with them on one or two animals, I have purposely shot several animals with the .300WSM 180gr. Accubond,including 4 Caribou, and have had poor penetration on shots under 150 yards.

My two buddies in Alberta both had poor experiences as well. As you can see, they suck!

Hmm, spent all it's energy inside the animal, left a exit hole in the rib cage the size of a grapefruit, seems it did what you would want it to do.

If people want an exit hole, shoot x bullets or partitions, if you want a long range round that uses all it's engergy up on the animal, I like the BST's or Accubonds.

I believe Ray said something to the extent of this before "at what part of the animal dieing did the bullet fail?"

As Rusty said, I used accubond 260's last year exclusivly in Namibia, using RL 15 at about 71 grains. Not chronoed, but probably 2600 fps. In my opinions, the bullets worked great on plains game. We only recovered 3 bullets; the two from gemsbok and kudu retained about 78%. On the gemsbok, my son wounded an old bull, and I took a Texas heart shot that penetrated to the shoulder (about 4 feet of penetration). I shot a mountain zebra at about 40 yds, through the near shoulder, bullet recovered on the far side after going through the other shoulder, retained about 58%.

At this speed the bullet worked great, super accuracy. I don't know how it would perform pushed much faster, but based on this performance out to 250 yard shots, I wouldn't see a need to push it faster. Bob

quote:

Originally posted by GMaxson:
I believe Ray said something to the extent of this before "at what part of the animal dieing did the bullet fail?"

Problem is, some of the animals don't die with the Accubond! For instance, as I recall, my buddie (on a hunt with me) shot a nice Mulie Buck that spotted him and was walking away at about 100-130 yards. He made a perfect THS (just slightly above the anus) and the buck dropped at the shot, but was still very much alive. The 180gr. bullet shattered the pelvis and broke up after only penetrating 8" or so. It was then killed with a knife.

I have seen similar or exact shots using 180gr. TBBCs or Blue Xs completely penetrate an animal lengthwise.

The .30 cal 180-200gr Accubonds are the perfect bullet for standing, broadside shots on deer-sized game at long range. Now, how perfect is that?????!

At least, IMHO, I will never use them again unless hunting Pronghorn Antelope with my .300 and 180gr+ Accubonds. Even then, the tissue destruction with the bullets blowing apart is not worth it for me.

quote:

Originally posted by Ivan:

But on that same hunt, I shot a muley buck with a 140 accubond with a mv of about 2950 fps, he was standing about 90 yards away, and the bullet didn't exit! killed him none the less but I was pretty disapointed in no exit. I recovered that one and it weighed right at 100grs. Here is a picture of the "exit" side. The bullet was found just under the skin.

WOW!!!!

Just exactley what you would expect from a Ballistic Tip!!

I thought they were "bonded" and supposed to act like a Partition... Which in all honesty I think they do. I think if you were to compare an expaned partion to an accubond, I'll bet you the weight retention and expantion would be very much similar. I have a hard time believing that it wouldn't blow right through from 90 yards impact velociy was probably around 2750-2800... was it maybe still to fast for that bullet? Hard to say... I'll have a little better "feel" for them after a dozen animals or so.

How can they act like a partition when they won't shoot through a broadside deer? I think in my 30+ years of big game hunting I might have a dozen recovered partitions, and I've fired many dozens of them at game of all sizes, all over the globe. Two Accubonds I dug out of mule deer weighed 60 and 63grs, they started at 200grs. The 140gr 270 weighed 41grs. after I found it. I've never had a partition fail to exit on deer sized game when the shot was broaside or nearly so. They'd like you to think they will behave like other premium bonded core bullets, but they aren't even close, compared to a Swift, North Fork or TBBC.

quote:

He made a perfect THS (just slightly above the anus) and the buck dropped at the shot

The problem always is that you can never compare a shot with one bullet to another, since every shot is "unique" There is know way to tell how a NP or X would have behaved.

BTW, if your on a "put a bullet in them anywhere you can" type hunt then, yes, BST's and Accubonds might not be what you are looking for.

I can in turn though say that I've made some poor shots on animals that if I had been using NP's or similar instead of a BST, I would have never recoved the animals.

Last deer I shot with a BST went in quartering away at 310yds and passed through 2/3's of the deer, through the opposite front shoulder where it sat under the skin retaining about 1/2 it's weight. Now, I'd hardly call that a failure, but instead was happy with that much penetration from it and was happy that it expended 100% of it's energy in the deer.

No bullet is 100% all the time in every situation.

John, I suspect that in the end analysis, what you've said about the quality of the original Nosler Partition will remain true.

It's taken a while, but I've pretty well decided that you can have too much frontal area when it comes at the expense of penetration -- and it often does -- plus the concept of "retained weight" doesn't mean all that much if the bullet ends up on the far side under the hide, or else exits.

I've tried 225 gr. Accu Bonds in my 338 Win. Mag. with good accuracy. With a BC of .500, it's about the flattest-shooting bullet option available in 338 Win. Mag. that is sort of built as a premium bullet. Even so, the advantages it offers of less drift and slightly flatter trajectory really don't make themselves known, in a practical sense, until you get past 400 yds.

At the end of the day, I suspect I'll stick with the original Partition. Despite the front half of the bullet that usually comes apart, and the lower percentage of retained weight, it's one of the most reliable big game bullets I've ever used, and I've found that I can count on it........

AD

As far as Nosler Partitions go I've been shooting them from .257 Roberts up through .375 H&H. I've been using Nosler Partitions since my uncle recieved his 300 and 257 Weatherbys from Roy in Southgate CA. in 1958. In all these years I have never, I repeat never, lost an animal to a terminal ballistics failure of a Nosler Partition bullet.

They are not a do it all super bullet. When driven within their design parameters, they will do what they say they will do, every time, period.

I have not taken any game with Accubonds. I am impressed with the results that my friends like BobC have had with them in .375, on African plains game. I am very impressed with their accuracy out of my two .375s.

There are lots of good Premium bullets out there. You should use the ones you like and the ones that performs the best for your type of hunting. Just my opine!

Mark:
I think you got enough answers to form your own opinions here. Slow bullets are good, fast bullets are bad in the AccuBond line! There are no miracle bullets, good for everything and everytime, except maybe for the TSX. I would be perfectly happy with them for any plainsgame, but would shoot my SAF or TSX for bitey things.

I took my 375 to Namibia for a reason, and did not want to pack along another rifle. Did not want to lose and pay for any larger expensive animals, and didn't really care about overkill on smaller ones. We shot it for 3-4 months before the trip, and did a lot of accuracy and penetration testing (sand, water jugs, wet paper in boxes, inner tube material) and and was completely satisfied. My Rem 700 shoots the Federal factory load and my reloads into less than an inch, which I thought would be necessary for longer shooting I might encounter. I did want to shoot everything with it, and at various ranges. Worked exceptionally well for me.

All the following shots were taken with 260 AccuBond, and were good enough for me:
Gemsbok, 50 yards, both shoulders and exit
Gemsbok, 100 yards frontal head shot (cull)
Impala, 100 yards, both shoulders and exit
Hartebeest, 130 yards, quarter forward lungs/shoulder and exit
Kudu, 150 yards, both shoulders and exit
Warthog, 150 yards, both shoulders and exit
Zebra, 200 yards, frontal chest/shoulder, 3 feet penetration and recovered; 60% and perfect mushroom
Kudu, 200 yards, rear head shot (cull)
Springbok, 216 yards, both shoulders, exited
Blue WB, 3 shots, 240 broadside shoulders, exited. Running, paunch, recovered 65%. Standing, rear spine, recovered 70%.
Kudu, 250 yards, frontal chest/shoulder, exited
Warthog, 310 yards, quartering paunch and exited offside shoulder
Blesbok, 360 yards, both shoulders, exited

The 3 recovered bullets looked just like all the recovered test bullets here at home, and I would say there were no failures. The shots on gemsbok, impala, and kudu absolutely ruined the front quarterson each animal, and we fed them to the lions.

GMaxson, you forgot the last and most important part of that sentence

quote:

, but was still very much alive.

I realize that it is hard to compare bullet performance, but we do that anyways, scientifically or not. The comparisons; however, are usually indicative of a trend, even with a small sampling. For instance, all 180gr. Accubonds shot into Deer-Caribou sized animals showed relatively poor penetration and in a couple of instances failed to kill the animal with the first, well-placed, shot due to lack of penetration. See my photo above from one of my Alberta deer hunts. Those bullets look like crap and penetrated like it too. All 180gr. TBBCs that I have used either fully penetrated or stopped on the off-side shoulder of all game shot (from African Gemsbok and Black Wildebeest to Canadian Caribou and Deer).

I completely agree with you that the BSTs and Accubonds are designed with great shot placement in mind- but if that great shot placement always means direct broadside, behind the shoulder shots, then they are not for my type of hunting. With reduced velocities at longer ranges, these bullets might penetrate better, but I require that my bullets penetrate to the vitals from most angles at most ranges. If my only shot happens to be a hard quartering shot at close range, then I want a bullet that will get there.

quote:

I can in turn though say that I've made some poor shots on animals that if I had been using NP's or similar instead of a BST, I would have never recoved the animals.

Please explain this one...it sounds like you saying that poor shot placement with a Ballistic Tip helped you succeed over the same shot had you used a Partition (hence deeper, and greater damage)? That seems counter-intuitive.

We do agree that no bullet is perfect for every type of shot situation. I do feel though that the TBBCs, Northfork, Partitions and possibly the TSXs are closer to perfection than any Accubond.

When it's all said and done is the accubond a tougher bullet than the normal old Nosler Ballistic Tip