I hear that Winchester is closing the New Haven facility. Is this the end of the Model 70? I have heard yes and no. What is the deal? Thanks

Your about 12 Days late on the news. Do a search on the Forums and you will pick up at least 12 or more different posts on this.

Did a search. Got lots of stuff from 2004 about who found a pre 64 model 70 in 375 etc. not much about the pertinent question. D

D,

There really is a lot of info within the previous 10 days that doesn't require a search. Just scroll back in several forums.

If you need to search, make sure you change the priorities from "relevance" to "date;" that'll get you there.

Jaywalker

Go to January 17, 2006 for my initial post on Winchester's demise (re: Model 70, Model 94, Model 1300, etc.)

quote:

Originally posted by D Hunter:
I hear that Winchester is closing the New Haven facility.

TRUE.

quote:

Is this the end of the Model 70?

Yes, unless someone makes a deal with Olin to license the trademark and keep making them.

But keep in mind that the Model 70 will never really die. Dakota 75 actions are essentially a model 70, as are the Waffenfabrik Hein action.

So you can still get a model 70, but with someone else's name on it. And better quality too.

As a side note, I was at a gun show yesterday. Saw a left hand 375 HH in stainless, NIB. Commented to the guy that this was probably the last time we'd see a new one of those.

Would have bought it for the action, but I'm not a lefty.

-Steve

Winchester quality has been suffering and gotten steadily worse over the years.
It's probably for the best.

If you can get past the mystique of the Winchester name and Logo you will be better served with nice model 70 type action made by another outfit, Dakota, Montana, and many others.

Does anyone think someone will buy Win???

I suspect someone will... The brand is too valuable.

quote:

Originally posted by Mitchell Attlewood:
Winchester quality has been suffering and gotten steadily worse over the years.
It's probably for the best.

If you can get past the mystique of the Winchester name and Logo you will be better served with nice model 70 type action made by another outfit, Dakota, Montana, and many others.

BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Winchester rifles today are as good as they've ever been. Simple economics (read LABOR UNION) is causing the US plant to close. When the guy who sweeps the floors makes as much as a master gunsmith, you're company is going to fail. Labor unions are what killed the USRAC plant, not lack of sales. I'll bet a month's pay you see model 70's by 2007 being produced in Japan.

Mitchell:

You have exactly stated it right! I got a real attack on another thread for suggesting that the Winchester name was attached to a rather inferior product for years - even predating 1964 (which seems to be a magic cut off date for what was "good" Winchester and "bad" Winchester) I go back far enough to remember using a Win.Mod.70 in 1948 in 220 Swift ( A HS graduation present from my father) In either 1949 or 1950 I bought my first NEW "big game" rifle, a 30-06. I bought it in Rem.721. Why? First and foremost, the Rem had a bolt with two lugs. Secondly I saw an article that said the Win. Mod.70 was way below the Rem. in a Rockwell "hardness" test - a very important factor in those days after WW2 where a lot of Jap Arisakas and Mauser 98s had been brought back - and reloading was starting to really catch on.

The plain fact of the matter is that corporate manipulations using a revered old name milked a lot of people. (After all, Dakota and similar high quality gunsmiths make a very good product and if I were young again and actively hunting I would want one of their rifles)

It is an old sad story. The Japanese I have heard are selling quite a few cars in the US. Gee! I wonder why?

quote:

Saw a left hand 375 HH in stainless, NIB.

You saw a right-handed version, NIB. Unfortunately, Winchester never made a Left Hand Stainless in .375 H&H as a production rifle.

Well, I'm pretty sure about what I saw as I sat there and thought about buying it for a bit. My wife was there too. If you'd like to confirm, you can call Keith's Gun Shop at (503) 492-6999.

It might have been a Model 70 Custom Extreme Weather II Left Hand


-Steve

Steve, you're right, that would be the only other choice.

That's why I said production rifle, as the Extreme Weather is a Custom Shop rifle.

I'll give them a call as it might be a nice rifle to own, if the price is right.

Thanks for the clarification!
Cheers,
CL

quote:

Originally posted by DC300:

quote:

Originally posted by Mitchell Attlewood:
Winchester quality has been suffering and gotten steadily worse over the years.
It's probably for the best.

If you can get past the mystique of the Winchester name and Logo you will be better served with nice model 70 type action made by another outfit, Dakota, Montana, and many others.

BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Winchester rifles today are as good as they've ever been. Simple economics (read LABOR UNION) is causing the US plant to close. When the guy who sweeps the floors makes as much as a master gunsmith, you're company is going to fail. Labor unions are what killed the USRAC plant, not lack of sales. I'll bet a month's pay you see model 70's by 2007 being produced in Japan.

DC300 - Carmelo is full of opinions, unfortunately, they are all wrong.

I don't know why Cheapchester is closing the New Haven plant, but I agree that their quality has been lacking and the first thing one of their rifles needs after coming out of the box is $500 worth of gunsmithing.

quote:

first thing one of their rifles needs after coming out of the box is $500 worth of gunsmithing.

500 - That's been the case for 15 years in my opinion...

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
I don't know why Cheapchester is closing the New Haven plant, but I agree that their quality has been lacking and the first thing one of their rifles needs after coming out of the box is $500 worth of gunsmithing.

I agree, but if you spend ~1400 on a tuned M70 (including purchase price), what else is out there that is as serviceable for the same money ?

I just bought a 9422 Tribute for my kids and the overall design is nice, but some of the workmanship, particularly the checkering is second rate at best.

Most people aren't disappointed when they find out that their Browning B25 was made in Belgium, in fact, they hope it was made by FN. If FN started making Model 70's it wouldn't break my heart, they have made some of the nicer Magnum Mauser bolt actions over the years if I haven't been misinformed. And I wouldn't cry about it being made by the Japanese either. They have been making some of the nicer Browning reproductions for many years, as well as current Brownings like my Browning O/U B325 shotgun, they make the very nice Miroku shotgun, etc., etc. And what if it went to Italy? Would you all start crying if Beretta or Pedersoli or Uberti decided to make them? I think they could do just as good a job as New Haven does. How many Colts (as in almost all of the black powder pistols and who knows how many Single Action Army frames) are in fact made in Italy? The only thing I will be concerned about is the quality and all of the above mentioned countries/manufacturers are capable of doing just as good a job as USRAC, in my humble opinion, and if they want to, better.

Wink:

It wouldn't disappoint me either if "FN" ( known to me in old days as Fabrique National) were to pick up manufacturing a rifle called "Winchester Model 70". Actually I'm odd enough to say that if "FN" were to put out such a rifle - I would say that rifle is VERY GOOD - because FN made it -and as an oldtimer, I know that name. (It's pathetic to see the number of Mod.94 fanatics who now whoop it up for Winchester - they were Winchester's bread and butter. Did you ever see a gun article in any mag that whooped it up for the 94? These people have lost their rifle -because Winchester thought their Mod.70 was their "flagship"" rifle. It wasn't since a few years after WW2. How do you think that superb gun makers like Dakota developed? People found out that they could do better. (BTW, American union labor can claim credit for sinking one more American company. Keep it up, guys. Eventually, all manufacturing will be "out sourced". Then I suppose the rest of us will have to either support you on welfare or you can flip hamburgers)

I spoke to a retail Gun store manager today. He told me that Winchester was indeed headed to Belgium. Probably making high grade Model 70s and their new semi auto rifle at first.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Model 70 of the future were built by the Chinese. They're making inroads in every other product we use.

BillQ

hey SierraBravo45 how about cutting the crap attitude. SEVEN minutes after his post, you fire back that he's a johnny-come-lately. Maybe D Hunter was on safari for 12 days and had no access to the internet. or maybe he was in the hospital for 12 days and had no internet. or maybe he just took a vacation and willfully avoided the internet. too many guys, like you, on these forums like to jump on others because you happen to more on a subject, or because you think the other guy is a day late and a dollar short and you want to be the jackass to point it out. get over yourselves and admit that not everyone is like you - tied to these forums 24/7...apparently.

Call me old-fashioned, but it pains me to see the dwindling and passing away of old line American gunmakers like Winchester.

Colt's hardly makes anything anymore, and now we hear that Winchester is following suit. It's no wonder. The short-sighted and intractable demands of organized labor, together with horribly poor management, have choked the life out of these companies and squandered their resources.

American manufacturing as a whole is wasting away, as witness the steady decline in factory jobs all across the country.

Sure the foreign-made "clones" of the most famous and enduring Colt's and Winchester firearms are more than serviceable. I own all sorts of foreign made guns and I like them.

But to me, there's nothing like a SAA or a 1911 with the "Colt's" name on it, and there's nothing like a Model 70 or a '94 with the "Winchester" name on it.

Call me what you will, but I want my classic American firearms to be made in the USA by their original makers, as they always have been.

should this thread be in "african big game hunting" section?

Considering the number of trophies that were taken in Africa with a Winchester Model 70, I think that it is highly appropriate to post this in the African hunting section.

TerryR

quote:

Originally posted by billrquimby:
I wouldn't be surprised if the Model 70 of the future were built by the Chinese. They're making inroads in every other product we use.

BillQ

Not so much the Chinese as American and European companies Outsourcing production to 12 year old Chinese girls and boys that works for nothing...

quote:

Considering the number of trophies that were taken in Africa with a Winchester Model 70, I think that it is highly appropriate to post this in the African hunting section.

'
TerryR, exept for you and me, the word "africa" had not even appeared in the entire thread!!!!

Saeed, this should be in the rifle forum , not African big game

The Colorado Outfitter Assoc. "The only voice representing non-resident hunters in Colorado"
Is raffeling off a Win model 70 classic
325 WSM.
Its lazer engraved on the stock with the COA logo.
The COA is a non profit and I hope I didnt break any site rules.
For ticket info contact: office@coloradooutfitters.org

I disagree that Winchester quality has steadily gone downhill. They have recently made great strides to improve the quality of their product, unlike most other factories who make them cheaper and cheaper. The current Safari Express is a good example. German ERA irons, Williams extractor, double recoil lugs with bedding, decent wood, Decellerator pad, good fit and finish overall, improved Miller stock design, one piece bottom metal. It's a better rifle than the pre-64 African 458 of which I've had two. Unlike the pre-64's, the new ones are made to be shot and will not split their stock as would every 458 and even every 375 according to Aagaard, if shot enough, in the pre-64 version. Feed, function and accuracy are almost unifomly good on the newer 70's and for the money, they are a steal in heavier calibers especially. Compared to a CZ which does need major work in a new rifle to function, not split its stock, feed, and even in some calibers even chamber the round it was designed for, the Winchester is head and shoulders above it. I'm gonna miss em.

$500 worth of gunsmithing added to the $900 original purchase price of a Winchester gives you a fantastic working rifle for some thousands of $ less than a Dakota and others mentioned.

It will be a great shame if Winchester disappears from our world forever..