quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Mike,

Sadly we have two lots of people on opposite side of the fence, and our minds have been made up..
At least we know precisely where we stand on this.

That is very true, Saeed.

But I have noticed that, apart from some inflammatory rhetoric that I have noted above, Sullivan's most thoughtful defenders are finally forced to damn him with some of the faintest praise I have ever read or heard.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
Saeed
Indeed my filming has always been with the goals of producing TV or DVD's. There is ZERO DOUBT Mark courts danger and relishes in the charges he gets on film. Obviously to anyone who watches his stuff, and to me when I filmed Death On The Run, he is not interested in finishing off DG at a distance if a confrontation is possible. No news there. None of the other PH's discussed have ever done this in my presence during filming or on my own hunts. Dawson and Smith INSIST that finishing shots are fired the SECOND the client has the chance to do so. Both have experienced full blown charges, and both hope the last one was actually the LAST ONE!
Ivan has gone into detailed explainations on his hunting style concerning elephants, cows in particular,so I will not repeat.I can't believe you watch TRACKS and have not seen a DG hunt? 98% of all out episodes are DG hunts! Keep tuning in though, I think you will enjoy the content. Yes, some producers want the DANGER FACTOR dripping from every sentence, and I too find it nonsense. You will not find that on our stuff. Do we discuss it? YOU BET, because it exists, but we do not do stupid stunts to invite disaster. It comes often enough without encouraging it as last year proved.
Good post though!

Interesting...from an individual who has seen it all...and the crickets stopped chirping..

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
Saeed
Indeed my filming has always been with the goals of producing TV or DVD's. There is ZERO DOUBT Mark courts danger and relishes in the charges he gets on film. Obviously to anyone who watches his stuff, and to me when I filmed Death On The Run, he is not interested in finishing off DG at a distance if a confrontation is possible. No news there. None of the other PH's discussed have ever done this in my presence during filming or on my own hunts. Dawson and Smith INSIST that finishing shots are fired the SECOND the client has the chance to do so. Both have experienced full blown charges, and both hope the last one was actually the LAST ONE!
Ivan has gone into detailed explainations on his hunting style concerning elephants, cows in particular,so I will not repeat.I can't believe you watch TRACKS and have not seen a DG hunt? 98% of all out episodes are DG hunts! Keep tuning in though, I think you will enjoy the content. Yes, some producers want the DANGER FACTOR dripping from every sentence, and I too find it nonsense. You will not find that on our stuff. Do we discuss it? YOU BET, because it exists, but we do not do stupid stunts to invite disaster. It comes often enough without encouraging it as last year proved.
Good post though!

Thank you David.

I am afraid all we get here is the Oudoor Channel, and to be frank, they have far too many shows which do not appeal to me.

I admire you for sticking to reality. And not trying to make everything look so dangerous.

I am not sure what audience these shows are trying to reach. But people who are hunters see through all this bullshit, and many are turned off by them.

Another thing wrong with these shows is the extraordinary amount of senseless talking.

Dave, without a doubt IMO, you guys, Safari Classics, are producing the absolute best series of TV shows and DVDs regarding DG hunting in Africa today.

Being interested in filming and editing myself, but on a much, much smaller and personal scale, I take notice of not only the show content, but the technical aspects as well. Saeed has also provided me with some great tidbits of insight in the past concerning formats and such for which I'm very appreciative, especially concerning settings for uploading to YouTube.

Watching the Boddington on Buffalo DVD again the other night, and your latest offering this afternoon, I find it very interesting how the presentations and editing have improved over the years. They are all good, but each successive video seems to make great progress.

Keep up the good work. "Tracks" is still the only TV show I actually try and make a point to watch every week.

To the topic of this thread, personally, I really appreciate your insight and objective comments concerning the PHs mentioned. Seems to me like you've made some very accurate statements!

quote:

I filmed Death On The Run

Dave, please: Can you write more about your filming with Mark?

Best wishes.

Bockhunter, III

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Cal

Good research on Mark Sullivans films.

From what I was told;
On the elephant the client did miss the entire elephant, they were fairly close, and it was assumed that the client just missed the brain, Mark fired one shot.

On the hippo in the water, that the client makes a good shot with his 470 Westley Richards, IIRC, double, and then Mark shoots it with the 600, he and that client have shot lots of hippos together, on purpose.
That is also the client that is in the first hippo charge with the bolt rifle, that shoots the charging hippo, misses the brain, then Mark shoots, If I remember correctly he is using the 450 No2 Lang, and brains the hippo, the cleint then shoots again.

That client has done multiple hunts with Mark.
In latter hunts the client has a double.

I have talked to a few people personally that have hunted with Mark, and all of them had very complementary things to say about him, his hunting style, his camps and how well he treated his trackers and the rest of his staff.

Also there is one hunter that shoots 2 cape buff with Mark. His 458 broke early in the hunt and he kills 2 cape buff, with one shot each, with Barnes X bullets [180gr IIRC], from a Winchester 300 Mag. I know one dropped to the shot, as it is in the video, a spine shot made on purpose..
This guy hunted twice with Mark, and as I recall, he stated Mark never fired a shot on his hunts.

He used to be an AR poster, but is now deceased.

Cal, Fantastic job on this! Its refreshing to see a well written post like this on AR... stating only facts.
Regards Elephant: Yes, It is considered normal practice among most PHs I know to fire back up shots. Most shots are taken at close range, and as a ph, we must only assume the animal is hit/wounded once his initial shot is taken. A couple years ago an elderly client fired (attempted heart shot) from sticks at 60 yards, I did not fire a back up shot (as is my standard practice on elephant). The bull ran off, and the client was not at all happy that I did not also shoot with my .470. Turned out the bull was missed entirely (!!) So it does happen. And had I shot, I would have shot the clients elephant for him. But it is ENTIRELY NORMAL for PH to shoot right after the client on tembo. Mark did the right thing!

Regards shooting from the truck: When a WOUNDED lion goes into long grass, IT IS STANDARD PRACTICE (of all sane PHs I know) to go in safely with a vehicle (whenever possible). In fact, my trackers would question my sanity if I chose to go in on foot (when a car was available)!! Visibility is much better from the car!
I have MS's book, and it is a fantastic work, with beautiful color photography. The quality of DG & plains game trophies is truly outstanding.
I have hunted with many drivers, trackers & game scouts over the years, (hunting many blocks in Tanzania), who have also hunted with MS; and NONE of them had anything negative to say about Mark, or the way he hunts.

quote:

Originally posted by TANZ-PH:

But it is ENTIRELY NORMAL for PH to shoot right after the client on tembo. Mark did the right thing!
.

I cant say I agree with that

quote:

Originally posted by A.Dahlgren:

quote:

Originally posted by TANZ-PH:

But it is ENTIRELY NORMAL for PH to shoot right after the client on tembo. Mark did the right thing!
.

I cant say I agree with that

You are certainly entitled to disagree my friend. I'm sure some PHs would not agree either, but I believe the majority will. On brain shot elephants, of course its quite apparent if a back up is neccessary or not. Either it goes down, or it dosn't. On heart shots it is not always as apparent if the shot was spot on, or not.
A wounded & lost elephant bull is a sad (and very expensive) experience. Nearly all my clients have told me to back up (or insurance shot) on elephant. Many in fact insist on it.

quote:

have MS's book, and it is a fantastic work, with beautiful color photography. The quality of DG & plains game trophies is truly outstanding.

The books from MS are very good.
They have an total other style...
Im sure some people, like the admin S., will see an totaly other MS.
He used "better words"..., and yes, the pictures are great.

Best wishes.

quote:

But it is ENTIRELY NORMAL for PH to shoot right after the client on tembo. Mark did the right thing!

-------------------------------------
Is it NORMAL for a PH to tell his client to take his first shot at the ass end of an elephant?

Very good work and interesting Mr. Pappas , i think you have done something that should be done long time ago beeing MS such a controversial PH - factual and objective , very well done indeed.
I have all his movies and i sincerely had fun watching them.
I tend to agree with all that Todd Williams said and seems is a wise and good sense hunter.
Even when he says that we must watch MS videos with the " mute " button engaged ! The way he relates with his clients , puts some of them in a foolish position imo.

But he really has very big balls , and i think that is exactly what is bothering a few people that try hard to discredit him .

quote:

Originally posted by samir:

quote:

But it is ENTIRELY NORMAL for PH to shoot right after the client on tembo. Mark did the right thing!

-------------------------------------
Is it NORMAL for a PH to tell his client to take his first shot at the ass end of an elephant?

Obviously we all have been missing something very important here.

So many of us have been hunting with so many PH who have had literally hundred of years between them.

And we all got it wrong.

How incredible all these so called PH put us all in so much danger by not shooting our animals.

I will have to remind my PH next time we are on safari.

I will make sure I do that while we are in camp. If I asked him this out on a hunt, I will be laughing so much he WILL need to shoot my animals. I won't be in any state to make an accurate shot.

Come to think of it, he might just be in the same position as me.

Imagine two hunters laughing so much, they cannot stand on two legs, their rifles are almost falling out of their hands, the trackers and game scout looking open mouthed at this spectacle.

quote:

Is it NORMAL for a PH to tell his client to take his first shot at the ass end of an elephant?

Samir:

In reply to the question: The PH must have had a good reason for doing so and the reason could be more than one.


The "Ass Shot" is designed to break the hip and anchor, another more central but high ass shot will spine and also anchor.

These are all regarded as effective aiming points though shunned by some as unsporting, unethical or whatever.

Sometimes it is the ONLY shot you are going to get in a situation which can be considered as "make or break".

I am pretty certain you and others will have read "The Perfect Shot".

quote:

Originally posted by samir:

quote:

But it is ENTIRELY NORMAL for PH to shoot right after the client on tembo. Mark did the right thing!

-------------------------------------
Is it NORMAL for a PH to tell his client to take his first shot at the ass end of an elephant?

NO. But where the hell did I ever suggest that????????
You just reminded me why I don't post on here much anymore!

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by samir:

quote:
But it is ENTIRELY NORMAL for PH to shoot right after the client on tembo. Mark did the right thing!

-------------------------------------
Is it NORMAL for a PH to tell his client to take his first shot at the ass end of an elephant?


NO. But where the hell did I ever suggest that????????
You just reminded me why I don't post on here much anymore!

When you stated "Mark did the right thing" I assumed you meant that MS did the right thing by shooting Mark Eggers (sp) elephant, after MS gave Eggers the green light to shoot at the ass end of the elephant in an open field.

Cal

You must have spent hours watching those DVD's,now I know its winter in Alaska.

I think MS prob has as many charges as most PH'S of any sort of experince, and hats off to him having the ablilty to market it so well. For someone that literally started from scratch with no formal apprenticeship, he has done remarkably well. Only thing is that had he recieved a little tuition perhaps his movies might not have been as excting.

He cetainly has made a fan out of a lot of people.

Bumping to run parallel with the other current Mark Sullivan threads for reference.
Shawn