I'm not sure if this incident has been posted. Apparently happened recently. Near Manyara , Tanzania. These were apparently not cattle killers. This really is something for the bunny huggers to see. So much for trophy hunters trying to hunt sustainably when the locals slaughter indiscriminately ! Notice the stab wounds , and the feet are all missing. In my part of the world the feet bones are sold to the witch doctors for muti. Probably the same there.

Yes we do need to get that out to the general public. Can you email me a good copy?

Note one has a research collar on it?

One of which is also collared; and is quite likely therefore that they were a Park's pride.

Also note that they have all been disemboweled as well, quite likely for their gall bladders.

I very much doubt the dismembered parts were on any witch-doctor's list.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:
One of which is also collared; and is quite likely therefore that they were a Park's pride.

Also note that they have all been disemboweled as well, quite likely for their gall bladders.

I very much doubt the dismembered parts were on any witch-doctor's list.

Probably took all the body fat from the stomach cavity for similar reason but as I've said before, you'll never stop the bloody Masai killing lions all the while they have breath in their body and a single lion walks the land.

http://www.eturbonews.com/5413...ghter-six-rare-lions



Tanzania villagers slaughter six rare lions


BY ADAM IHUCHA, ETN TANZANIA CORRESPONDENT | JAN 01, 2015


Tanzania villagers slaughter six rare lions


Six lions have been slaughtered by angry villagers outside Tarangire National Park in western Arusha, Tanzania, tainting Tanzania’s reputation as one of the remaining world’s lions' safe heaven.

Nearly 100 furious Olasiti villagers at Minjingu area shot down two lions and speared to death four others in retaliation following the stray lions allegedly attacking and marauding three donkeys in a kraal (an enclosure for cattle or other livestock).

Natural Resources and Tourism Minister Lazaro Nyalandu said the government was shocked and saddened by the incident, saying law enforcers had launched a manhunt in search of ringleaders behind the mass killing of the lions.

“This mass killing of lions casts a bleak future for our wildlife treasure,” Mr. Nyalandu stressed.

He pleaded with communities bordering the protected areas to refrain from taking the law into their own hands.

“Whenever human-wildlife conflicts emerge, they should report to authorities,” Nyalandu stressed.

Nkaiti Ward Councilor Mr. Simon Abel said over the phone that the battle between villagers and stray lions also left four villagers injured by the lions, some seriously.

The villagers nursing their wounds at Monduli District Hospital were Jackson Mediutieki, Loserian Tobiko, Lebahati Korudini, Jackson Mrefu, and Msee Simon.

The Tanzania Association of Tour Operators (TATO) Chairman, Mr. Willy Chambullo, condemned the mass killing of lions in the strongest terms possible, saying wildlife conservation was everybody’s responsibility.

“Our hearts are bleeding. I wish the villagers should have asked us to compensate for their donkeys rather than slaughter the rare animals,” Mr. Chambullo explained.

TATO CEO Sirili Akko said that unfortunate incident demonstrates the communities do not see the value of wildlife.

“We need to come together - public and private sectors - so that we can strategize how best we can educate the local people adjacent to protected areas to coexist with wildlife in harmony,” Mr. Akko explained.

There has been a "catastrophic fall" in the number of lions in the wildlife-rich Tanzania in the last decade, thanks to the retaliation killings.

A recent survey indicates that the Tarangire-Manyara ecosystem, a key country lions' refuge, has been losing an average of 25 lions annually in the period under review.

Findings by the Tarangire Lion Project show 226 lions have been slaughtered between 2004-2013 for marauding livestock.

Dr. Bernard Kissui - a leading lion researcher - warned over the extinction of the entire big cats population and hurting a $1.9 billion tourism industry, if affirmative actions are not taken.

Lions are one of Africa’s big five animals in which Tanzania, just as any other African countries with abundant wildlife, has been using them as a major tourism marketing tool to attract tens of thousands of eager tourists each year.

Others are elephants, rhinos, leopards, and buffalos.

“Retaliation killing of lions is a silent but real threat to lion populations in the Tarangire–Manyara ecosystem where incidences of livestock keepers spearing and poisoning them have been recorded,” Dr. Kissui said.

The worst lion mass killing was in 2009 where over 26 lions were slaughtered by angry-villagers near Tarangire National Park.

Official estimates show that there are between 15,000-16,000 lions surviving mostly in national parks and game reserves with a smaller population in unprotected areas.

This is the largest population in Africa and about 40 percent of the total population of remaining lions in the world.

Kishimay Ndalepoi, one of the Maasai villagers, said the lion was considered a great enemy in the Maasai community.

“Wherever the Maasai encounter a lion, the only thing which comes up in his or her mind is killing it,” said Ndalepoi, adding that a lion is an enemy, which could kill human beings or livestock.

Available records show that the entire Tarangire-Manyara ecosystem faces a massive declining of wildlife populations due to an intolerable growth of human population coupled with ever-increasing demand for land uses that is not compatible with conservation interests.

Various studies indicate that there has been a constant increase of unsustainable exploitation of natural resources and land uses such as cultivation, overgrazing, charcoal burning, and settlements within the wildlife routes and corridors flaring human-wildlife conflicts.

Conservationists argue that such detrimental impacts of human activities have since been felt on core areas, as well as foraging grounds, breeding sites, dispersal areas, wildlife migratory routes, and corridors.

The consequence of this, experts say in a study, is a growing threat of land degradation and fragmentation, which slowly but surely is putting the Tarangire-Manyara ecosystem at risk of becoming an ecological island.

By implications in the long run, the entire ecosystem will see a massive declining of wildlife populations, genetic erosion,n and species extinction.

In additional, the security of the resident animals in fragmented habitats becomes uncertain, because once squeezed into small patches, animals cannot easily escape from their enemies, like predators and human influence.

Since no wildlife protected area can be a self-contained ecological unit, core areas linking Tarangire National Park with other wildlife protected areas and habitats should remain intact for the park to maintain its reputation as an important biodiversity hot spot.

Deogratius Gamassa, a renowned-conservationist and the former Principal for African Wildlife Management College-Mweka, is on record as saying the eviction of the people within the Tarangire-Manyara ecosystem and the two parks expansion were two possible options.

Feet missing.....bet the claws end up in a necklace around some ladies neck...

When the government gets serious and a sure death penalty is associated with poaching, the situation might be ameliorated somewhat. Otherwise, Shakari is absolutely correct.

3 donkeys. Six lion for 3 donkeys.

Donkeys are freaking everywhere in Masailand.

I love donkeys, don't get me wrong, but ...

TIA Jan, TIA!!!

The human species as a whole, is adversely effecting the globe/environment in many ways,
this is just a more specific example.
NO doubt the Massai in their minds believe that they every right kill lions for their own reasons
just as others feel they should be able to recreationally hunt them and have them stuffed for their trophy room.

Il give them one thing, using mostly spears to hunt down & kill lions is what I call taking serious personal risk & danger
in the task of taking dangerous game.

quote:

Feet missing.....bet the claws end up in a necklace around some ladies neck...

No. Check out the Chinese. They ain't interested in necklaces.

quote:

Kishimay Ndalepoi, one of the Maasai villagers, said the lion was considered a great enemy in the Maasai community.

“Wherever the Maasai encounter a lion, the only thing which comes up in his or her mind is killing it,” said Ndalepoi, adding that a lion is an enemy, which could kill human beings or livestock.

And that is from the "horse's mouth".

The average quoted figure of 25 Lion/year is also somewhat conservative as this headcount is from the carcasses retrieved/confirmed - what about the ones which have been hidden/disposed of?

Do the anti's even understand that the picture above makes the average hunters blood boil ? We are NOTHING like these people responsible for this. Saying that the answer is educating them is like trying to educate the Asians that Rhino horn has no medicinal qualities. It is ingrained in their culture.

Saw this on Aaron Nelsons FB page. Shocking.
The feet are going to go for Muti.

Where is the ineffectual compensation system.

Not really all that different than our own Obozo trading 5 really bad folks for one deserter. I think it must just be the mind set, huh?

Larry Sellers
SCI(International)Life Member
R8 Blaser
Sabatti "trash" Double Shooter

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
3 donkeys. Six lion for 3 donkeys.

Donkeys are freaking everywhere in Masailand.

I love donkeys, don't get me wrong, but ...

http://www.ippmedia.com/frontend/index.php?l=75864


Maasai warriors kill marauding lions
BY CHARLES NGEREZA
2nd January 2015


Seven lions from Tarangire National Park were yesterday killed by Maasai warriors in revenge for marauding livestock in a nearby Olasiti village in Babati District, Manyara Region.

Narrating, Lang’asani Morwo said about twelve lions invaded his neighbour’s compound and started attacking livestock before the owner called for help.

He said a big number of young men traditionally known as Morans came and started chasing the lions before killing them with spears. He said the Morans managed to kill four of them.
“News had spread in the whole village that several lions had been spotted near Zion tourists Campsite thus prompting Maasai warriors to fight them,” Morwo said.

During the two-hour battle, two young warriors were seriously injured.

He said the Morans decided to hunt other lions in Tarangire National Park where they managed to kill four lions.
Commenting on the killings , the Minister for Tourism and Natural Resources, Lazaro Nyalandu condemned the killings ,saying act would harm the tourism sector.

“I condemn the act of people taking the law into their own hands and kill the most precious species of wild life in our heritage ,we have special forces to respond in cases of wild animals invade human settlements. The residents were supposed to inform Tarangire National park officials about the presence of the lions in the village and not to kill them,” said Nyalandu.

He said even if there had been an attack, Tanapa rangers could have arrived in the area within less than five minutes because the area is a few kilometres from the headquarters of Tarangire National Park.

Nyalandu also asked the police force in Mnyara Region and Tarangire National Park to conduct proper investigations on the matter so that legal action can be taken.

“We must find out the motive behind. Preliminary investigation had established that two lions were killed by using gun…who owned the gun and why killing the animals,” Nyalandu querried.
A recent survey showed that Tarangire-Manyara ecosystem, is home of many lions.

Tarangire Lion Project shows a total of 226 lions had been killed between 2004-2013 in retaliation for marauding livestock.
Lions are Africa’s big five cats that attract tourists each year.
SOURCE: THE GUARDIAN

WELL , as long as the mass killings are conducted by indigenous people it should be ok. After all ,they have lived there for thousands of years and are one with nature....as long as its not a wealthy trophy hunter taking out an old male and dumping thousands of $$$'s into the Tanzania economy...

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:
One of which is also collared; and is quite likely therefore that they were a Park's pride.

Also note that they have all been disemboweled as well, quite likely for their gall bladders.

I very much doubt the dismembered parts were on any witch-doctor's list.

Probably took all the body fat from the stomach cavity for similar reason but as I've said before, you'll never stop the bloody Masai killing lions all the while they have breath in their body and a single lion walks the land.

Steve is correct.

The fat around lion's matumbo is prized in TZ for dawa (medicine) cures arthritis, pain, etc. The fat is rendered & put in bottles. You heat up the bottle near a campfire, and when the white lard liquefies to clear oil, rub it on. I have used it myself, and it does seem to work very well. One time my client shot a huge lion that rendered 8 large empty water bottles of oil. Loading this lion gave me some knee pain. The next day I rubbed this lion's oil on my knees and was cured.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
The human species as a whole, is adversely effecting the globe/environment in many ways,
this is just a more specific example.
NO doubt the Massai in their minds believe that they every right kill lions for their own reasons
just as others feel they should be able to recreationally hunt them and have them stuffed for their trophy room.

Il give them one thing, using mostly spears to hunt down & kill lions is what I call taking serious personal risk & danger
in the task of taking dangerous game.

To kill this whole pride...I bet there was chemical help.

According to the article 2 were shot.

For 2 to be shot and the rest speared, there is something more to this story.

Given how tightly guns are controlled in Tanzania I would think finding that one would be important, and permanently removing his firearms license asap.

On the other hand, is this behavior any different than our wolf issues here? We have an obstensively more efficient govenrnment and a better educated populace, and they can't get compensation for wolf damage right either. How much "SSS" have we heard on this board? This is another human/animal interaction that will continue to increase as long as the population density near the animal reserves increases.

Oh,and Tanz-ph, I bet you would have had the same effect with baby oil warmed up. How are we going to stop this unscientific use of animals if people who are supposedly educated buy in to it?

cr:

Removing his firearms license? They don't have a firearms license.

TANZ-PH has lived in Africa a long time and if he says it works, I believe him. But I do believe it works if you believe it works. That's what "muti" is all about.

While each and all of us are entitled to our opinion, Lion fat has been used as a traditional medication for decades, loooong before the arrival of the Chinese.

Does it work? .... as far as muscular ailments are concerned, the answer is yes.

It is also mixed in small quantities with tea to alleviate bronchitis and stomach ailments - how effective, I cannot say but the indigenous population swear by it so there has to be some truth related to its curative properties.

Shoot yourself a lion in any part of Africa and I guarantee you the carcass will be meticulously dissected for whatever fat content can be retrieved and jealously guarded by the skinners.

One needs to remember that our indigenous folk have always had to rely on traditional medicine obtained from leaves, roots and bark; chemists and Obamacare facilities are not readily available to these people.

Another highly prized "commodity" is elephant dung which again is used primarily to clear respiratory tract infections and at times ingested in brew form to cure digestive tract ailments.

An elephant cures itself by selecting known herbs, shrubs, leaves, berries, bark, roots, etc. which form part of its daily diet so all in all its comes together and makes sense that these people who do not have access to "modern medicine" resort to traditional healing methods.

India's ancient well established Ayurvedic based natural medicines along with Chinas ancient natural medicinal remedies
are in fact very effective in many ways for humans....as are some of the old long established European natural remedies.
Ive used remedies from each of them, and even combined substances from all three of those different cultural origins,
NO doubt some of the ancient African remedies are effective also, and not all just witch doctor hocus-pocus.

Ok, so you all agree that rhino horn does all manner of good also?

Same level of proof.

Sorry, I doubt it.

Rubbing warmth on a sore joint has some pain relief properties... Lion fat adds to it??? Somehow, I doubt that.

I have no doubt that some natural remedies may have some effect. Rubbing one type of animal's fat curing arthritis and gonorrhea? Naw, call me a sceptic.

There are many hundreds of natural remedies in each discipline that work, be they plant based or animal based.
And they are all legally sourced, but of course there are hocus -pocus solutions like Rhino horn.
However I don't write off the validity and effectiveness of the vast remainder of natural remedies,
just because of the nonsense behind a few old wives tale remedies.

Im sure many of the assholes dealing in Rhino horn see no medicinal value in them personally,
but just the highly lucrative money value in horn that they can gain from the fools prepared to
pay the prices the market demands....capitlizing/exploiting on peoples ignorance and vanity is an easy opportunity for profit.

at the other end, genuine Ayurvedic practitioners in India dont charge a lot for their extensive studied knowledge and
genuine healing services.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
According to the article 2 were shot.

For 2 to be shot and the rest speared, there is something more to this story.

Given how tightly guns are controlled in Tanzania I would think finding that one would be important, and permanently removing his firearms license asap.

On the other hand, is this behavior any different than our wolf issues here? We have an obstensively more efficient govenrnment and a better educated populace, and they can't get compensation for wolf damage right either. How much "SSS" have we heard on this board? This is another human/animal interaction that will continue to increase as long as the population density near the animal reserves increases.

Oh,and Tanz-ph, I bet you would have had the same effect with baby oil warmed up. How are we going to stop this unscientific use of animals if people who are supposedly educated buy in to it?

Going a step further, is this not the same practice employed by ranchers and settlers here in the USA? The wolves and bears were shot out in many areas because they killed livestock and were dangerous. I leave the ethics question out of this because I think that a decision would be made on how many of your livestock were killed. Was it the 'right' thing to do? How much different is this lion situation in Africa? Pretty hard for me to say I would not SSS if my livestock was harassed and killed by animals. I really would not have to much good to say about hunters not liking what I did to protect my herd. Just food for thought.

quote:

Rubbing warmth on a sore joint has some pain relief properties... Lion fat adds to it??? Somehow, I doubt that.

It must have some properties that provide relief and applying it and rubbing it into the affected area twice a day for a couple of weeks has, in numerous cases, cured the ailment where cortisone injections, for example failed.

Lion balm/oil is fully absorbed by the skin leaving no external oiliness like some other balms - the odor however is not what I would call pleasant but that can be overcome by mixing a small quantity of fragrant lotion.

Oh, and contrary to most modern medications, it has no expiry date or "best before" that I know of.

Traditional medicines have existed since the beginning of time and that is fact; it is also fact that some modern doctors today will reluctantly admit to this even though modern herbal medicine will sometimes include fungal products (e.g. penicillin), as well as minerals and certain animal/fish parts (e.g. cod liver oil)?

Dammit, horse serum is used as the base for antivenins and other medical applications so why shouldn't lion fat have curative properties of its own?

Maybe you could enlighten us on why herbal medicines, vitamins, etc. have become fashionable; why populations are leaning more towards consuming naturally grown products (e.g. free-range) as opposed to food which is today being produced for mass consumption?

To each his own.

Did no one tell them, that after countless thousands of years, that the lions now belong to Euro/American trophy hunters? Bloody cheeky of them, to say the least...

Whilst this is disturbing (and indeed it has been going on since time began) what is the suggested remedy? Buffer zones? compensation?

Interesting to note that these Masai took out more Lions in one day than we would take off in a concession over three years. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Whilst this is disturbing (and indeed it has been going on since time began) what is the suggested remedy? Buffer zones? compensation?

Interesting to note that these Masai took out more Lions in one day than we would take off in a concession over three years. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

There is no remedy. The Masai will always kill lions at every opportunity and by any and all means possible all the while there is a lion on the planet.

It's that simple.

quote:

Originall crbutler:

Oh,and Tanz-ph, I bet you would have had the same effect with baby oil warmed up. How are we going to stop this unscientific use of animals if people who are supposedly educated buy in to it?

Well first, there wasn't any baby oil in the bush camp. I didn't really say you MUST put it on while warm. I said the stuff is a solid (like lard) in the bottle. You must heat the bottle a bit to get it back to an oil, (so as to pour it out of the bottle). It was not warm when I tried it. It seemed to work well.
As there is no drug store around and when stuck in camp one must try their "Bush Remedies" suggested by my staff for minor things sometimes.

I shared a tent one time with a very famous old PH (who has written two books) and he kept begging me to get him some Crocodile oil for his arthritis.

My guys always utilize the Lion's fat from the client's trophy. There was no harm in trying it.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Did no one tell them, that after countless thousands of years, that the lions now belong to Euro/American trophy hunters? Bloody cheeky of them, to say the least...

good point.

That's just silly. Lions belong to and in Africa. Controlled and educated harvest makes sense. Allowing slaughter does not. There should be costs to pay -- I'd suggest cattle, as that would be understood.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:
Obamacare facilities are not readily available to these people.

Or to anyone else for that matter.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

Traditional medicines have existed since the beginning of time and that is fact;
it is also fact that some modern doctors today will reluctantly admit to this..

The problem with much of modern society is that people can often let their condition continue
for yrs until it becomes chronic level and the extreme suffering causes them to eventualy do
something about it.
Such Long standing now chronic medical conditions are not often rapidly fixed by natural remedies.
They need time work...But people become impatient and want the 'quick fix' or relief, which modern drugs offer.

An Arline pilot wrote a book about where he turned to natural remedies to clear his badly blocked arteries
after 30yrs of abusing his body with poor diet/lifestyle.
It took him two yrs of special strict quality diet to completely dissolve the extensive 30yrs worth of plaque buildup
in his arteries.

I consider the fact that his condition was cured in a relative short 2 yrs vs 30yrs of self abuse,
a pretty good job by nature....of course other people would whinge & whine and despair about that length of time,
and would instead choose to stay hooked on modern drugs for the rest of their life.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Ok, so you all agree that rhino horn does all manner of good also?

Same level of proof.

Sorry, I doubt it.

Rubbing warmth on a sore joint has some pain relief properties... Lion fat adds to it??? Somehow, I doubt that.

I have no doubt that some natural remedies may have some effect. Rubbing one type of animal's fat curing arthritis and gonorrhea? Naw, call me a sceptic.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Rubbing warmth on a sore joint has some pain relief properties... Lion fat adds to it??? Somehow, I doubt that.

It must have some properties that provide relief and applying it and rubbing it into the affected area twice a day for a couple of weeks has, in numerous cases, cured the ailment where cortisone injections, for example failed.

Lion balm/oil is fully absorbed by the skin leaving no external oiliness like some other balms - the odor however is not what I would call pleasant but that can be overcome by mixing a small quantity of fragrant lotion.

Oh, and contrary to most modern medications, it has no expiry date or "best before" that I know of.

Traditional medicines have existed since the beginning of time and that is fact; it is also fact that some modern doctors today will reluctantly admit to this even though modern herbal medicine will sometimes include fungal products (e.g. penicillin), as well as minerals and certain animal/fish parts (e.g. cod liver oil)?

Dammit, horse serum is used as the base for antivenins and other medical applications so why shouldn't lion fat have curative properties of its own?

Maybe you could enlighten us on why herbal medicines, vitamins, etc. have become fashionable; why populations are leaning more towards consuming naturally grown products (e.g. free-range) as opposed to food which is today being produced for mass consumption?

To each his own.

Dr. Butler needs no help here as this is his forté...but...

...Fujo...you hit the nail on the head...they are fashionable...which in no uncertain terms translates to EFFECTIVE.

Historically and scientifically speaking...medicine changed life expectancy across the board first with childhood vaccines and not until...circa early to mid 20th century.

When you look at life expectancy of adults and exclude anyone that that died before 18...medicine did not start to curve the line upwards until about the beginning of the 21st century...believe it or not. Chinese/herbal/traditional medicine never influenced life expectancy of the human.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

Traditional medicines have existed since the beginning of time and that is fact;
it is also fact that some modern doctors today will reluctantly admit to this..

The problem with much of modern society is that people can often let their condition continue
for yrs until it becomes chronic level and the extreme suffering causes them to eventualy do
something about it.
Such Long standing now chronic medical conditions are not often rapidly fixed by natural remedies.
They need time work...But people become impatient and want the 'quick fix' or relief, which modern drugs offer.

An Arline pilot wrote a book about where he turned to natural remedies to clear his badly blocked arteries
after 30yrs of abusing his body with poor diet/lifestyle.
It took him two yrs of special strict quality diet to completely dissolve the extensive 30yrs worth of plaque buildup
in his arteries.

I consider the fact that his condition was cured in a relative short 2 yrs vs 30yrs of self abuse,
a pretty good job by nature....of course other people would whinge & whine and despair about that length of time,
and would instead choose to stay hooked on modern drugs for the rest of their life.

That would be a very loose interpretation of the definition of the word "fact".

I was having this same conversation with some of the rangers whom I work with in the reserves , commenting how ridiculous it is that anyone could believe that Rhino horn has medicinal properties. Someone commented with a straight face " Rhino horn really does work " we all fell silent , rather stunned by his comment , he went on " if you strap it on the right way "

What happed to those lions is typical AFRICA! those THAT DID it would be defended forever in the name of "culture" I recently hunted Masialand in November AND what I have seen is A ecological Disaster!! the place is over crazed to the point were there is no top soil left in most places We must have seen 20 000 cows not even trying to count goats!! the biggest shock to me came when we were in the NGORO Crater, while we watched 4 of the biggest male lions I have ever seen with in 100 yards of them A Masia was crazing his cattle!