The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Are the bunny huggers and antis winning?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Just returned from a ten day buffalo hunt in Zimbabwe. While dealing with SAPS at JNB/ORT, one of the SAPS official mentioned to our meet and assist representative that hunting was down considerably this year over last year. His comment was that SAPS had cleared about 4,500 rifle permits so far this season vs. over 8,000 permits for the same time last year. Certainly, there are other ports of entry for rifles into Africa but the number mentioned stood out. While in the hunting area I mentioned that figure to my PH for his comment. He agreed that hunting is noticeably off for this year. He went on to say that during the off season he attended some of the hunting shows in Europe. He went on to say that some would be hunters were so worried about being seen talking to him that they would not openly accept his business card where someone could be watching. One gentleman insisted on booking a safari only on line and mandated that no photos would be taken or published of his hunt. His explanation was that it could damage his business. So, it seems that the antis are capable of damaging a hunters reputation and possibly his business if he wishes to travel to Africa or anywhere else in order to pursue hunting. Granted, such an experience could be isolated but in conjunction with the comments from SAPS in Johannesburg regarding rifle permits issued it does make one wonder if the antis are winning the argument through intimidation. "The government cannot give to anyone anything that it does not first take from someone else." | ||
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I am just taking a guess why this might be happening. Finances are down, and I suspect many people are avoiding South Africa because of their silly, never ending rule changes. They have been at it for quite a long time, creeping along, making it more difficult for hunters as time goes along. Years ago, we used to ship our rifles to Zimbabwe ahead of us. They went through South Africa. Everything went smoothly for a few years. Then they suddenly started asking for a "temporary import" permit - just another money grab really. I remember we got into a sort of panic as this was brought up to us, and had to get someone involved to get the necessary paperwork done. Reading some of the posts here since then, I cannot help but feel that the South African government has been taking a more aggressive requirements for hunters to meet to be able to hunt there. I know a number of people from here who have been to both South Africa and Namibia before, and seem to favor Namibia for their hunts now. Hopefully this will change. | |||
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Yes, the anits are indeed winning. Look at the areas in Africa where hunting is banned. Bottom line is there are more of them than us. Look at the number of hunters and the increasing number of photo lodges on the Zambezi. In 10 years African hunting outside of private ranches will be done. Cal PS. When I was in Zim this past July I was told an interesting statistic: along the Zambezi are 600 lodges devoted to photos, rafting, etc. Some charge $1500 per night!!! Compare this with the number of hunting camps along the Zambezi and the math will tell you we are a vanishing breed. _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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I believe what Saeed says about economics being down is true. Also think a lot of people that hunt will not bother with bringing their own rifle, especially for plains game. Camp rifles are usually good and much easier if you want to have a week or two of vacation before/after. | |||
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Yes, hunt numbers are down across the board, not just in Africa. I think we hunters are certainly losing the social media front. The Cecil reaction was hard to believe and the negative pall it cast on us put us way behind. While it's died down, posting hunting photos on the 'Net can evoke a lot of venom from the keyboard commandos. I like some of the positive things about hunting I see getting posted on FB by SCI and some African Hunting groups. What can we do? Preach the good things about hunting (the financial engine that pays for conservation). Open up our wallets and kick in like the anti's are doing. Also get out there and get younger generations involved in the shooting sports and hunting. Our opposition is certainly out there recruiting the youth to their team! | |||
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Seems to be country specific and changing of hunting tastes. Namibia, which champions hunting and hunting rights, continues to grow their hunting industry. While quotas are down a little due to four years of drought, more foreign hunters are turning to Namibia's fence-free, open concession hunting and even farm hunting as well. And now that there are several alternatives to entering the country without the PIA hassles of JNB, it's becoming far easier to hunt Namibia than many other alternatives, plus it's a bargain in comparison. So while some areas are seeing a significant drop off, other countries like Namibia are making it far easier to appeal to the hunting community and it's paying off for them - now if they can just get a handle on the growing crime spree in Windhoek...  ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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Please support this movie. Jens Ulrik is trying to make a movie that is factual based and shows conservation through hunting  Donations for movie | |||
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I think the bunny huggers and antis were delivered a blow during the last US election. Before that they thought that most shared their liberal views.Now they are the ones that are scared and keeping a low profile.I believe that hunters are more than ever more cautious about how they spend their money.They are simply trying to get the most for their dollar and if they feel that they are not getting much from a hunt in Zim or Tanz then they stay home or go elsewhere.Quality and quantity of animals is down, areas are not that wild anymore,less friendly atmosphere etc.. | |||
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Shootaway is on to something. The Cecil debacle was Dam near the nadir of hunting and it coincides with the apex of liberalism. Seems folks sloughed off the brainwash and getting back to common sense. And that includes not posting every Dam thing on the interweb. Hunting in Africa ebbs and flows as we all know, I don't disagree totally with Cal but I am more optimistic. A few high profile projects on the true benefits of hunting, hosted or produced by high profile people, is really all it will take to win the media battle. Africa herself will ultimately decide the fate of wildlife. | |||
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Apparently, Lying Aid is a big fan of Accurate Reloading. The following was posted on their Facebook(September 13, 2017): *** Hunter comment on a hunting forum: Are the bunny huggers and antis winning? The hunter says he spoke with a South African Police representative responsible for issuing gun permits (hunters always travel with their favourite and expensive guns, and need to be allowed “permits” to import their guns into the hunting countries). This official said that this year, 4,500 permits were issued, well down from about 8,000 issued last year. Other comments on the thread: 1. “Yes, hunt numbers are down across the board, not just in Africa. I think we hunters are certainly losing the social media front. The Cecil reaction was hard to believe and the negative pall it cast on us put us way behind. While it's died down, posting hunting photos on the 'Net can evoke a lot of venom from the keyboard commandos. I like some of the positive things about hunting I see getting posted on FB by SCI and some African Hunting groups. What can we do? Preach the good things about hunting (the financial engine that pays for conservation). Open up our wallets and kick in like the anti's are doing. Also get out there and get younger generations involved in the shooting sports and hunting. Our opposition is certainly out there recruiting the youth to their team!” 2. “I believe that hunters are more than ever more cautious about how they spend their money.They are simply trying to get the most for their dollar and if they feel that they are not getting much from a hunt in Zim or Tanz then they stay home or go elsewhere.Quality and quantity of animals is down, areas are not that wild anymore,less friendly atmosphere etc..” 3. “When I was in Zim this past July I was told an interesting statistic: along the Zambezi are 600 lodges devoted to photos, rafting, etc. Some charge $1500 per night!!! Compare this with the number of hunting camps along the Zambezi and the math will tell you we are a vanishing breed.” So, let’s take a step back from the rhetoric. I do not believe, really, that the “antis” are doing all that much these days with some few exceptions. Yours Truly for example. What I do believe is that hunters are being “put off” by the prices being charged by the hunting operators, the greed of the governments setting ever increasing trophy fees, the ever increasing prices charged by local taxidermists, the ever more difficult requirements for gun (and ammunition) imports, the airlines mostly refusing to transport hunting trophies, AND, tellingly, the pretty miserable “trophy” quality of the animals on offer. So let’s dissect this. 1. South Africa cannot offer hunters much more than ranched animals or captive raised lions. That bubble has burst. 2. All the big trophy animals have been shot out of Zambia, Zimbabwe, Tanzania, Mozambique etc years ago. Whether by hunters or bushmeat poachers or commercial poachers. The dregs that remain are no longer appealing to trophy hunters, especially at the prices they are being charged. 3. Namibia now seems to be the “darling” of trophy hunters, but this will not last long. Namibia will soon enter into category 2 above as Namibia seems willing to sell wildlife to the lowest bidder these days. 4. Trophy hunters are a dying breed. Fewer and fewer 60+ age hunters with the big bucks remain, and the “youth” is not convinced. Except if you count the “bored and pampered” youth like the Trumps junior. The “antis” did not contribute to this decline, much as they would like to claim honours. It was always going to be a consequence of greed, corruption, escalating prices. For example, when I sat down with the Minister of Tourism and Arts in Zambia and asked her why Zimbabwe was earning much more from a government trophy fee for a lion than Zimbabwe she paid big attention. It’s all about the money, and the money will defeat the trophy hunters. Oh, and as a final comment on this post – hey you there at the IUCN and WWF – can you comment about your precious “sustainable trophy hunting” dreams given what I wrote above? *** DSC Life Member HSC Life Member NRA Life Member SCI RMEF | |||
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Yep, no reason to predict the end of the universe yet. | |||
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| Administrator |
Lying Aid had a women here trying to push their agenda. She was not so bad herself, not near as bad as the idiots running Lying Aid, who would not know what the word conservation hit them in the bloody face. What a bunch of crooked fakes, led by an ignorant idiot claiming to be an expert!  | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Are the bunny huggers and antis winning?
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