That is a unique use of a trail camera.

I have seen a sign it stated "Smile, your on camera." Trail cameras have caught alot of trespassers. They have revolutionalized the hunting arena.

Nice cat.

Now I'll not so jealous, At least you had to wait a few more days before shooting your elephant. Good job.

It seems that some of you want the nay-sayers to keep quiet. How interesting would this site be is every thread was another cyberspace circle-jerk?

I won't go so far as to say that the use of the trail cam ruined the hunt, but it it did take out a lot of the guessing, waiting and discomfort that usually makes up the bulk of a leopard hunt.

Don't we as hunters tend to value the hard won trophies all the more because of the work that went into securing them?


But the real point of my post: have you noticed that client hunters tend to emphasize the amount of pain and suffering that went into securing certain trophies and rarely mention the ease in taking the trophies that "fell into their lap", while PHs usually emphasize the ease in which they met success and rarely mention the hunts that came down to the wire?

This is the second "first day leopard" lauded here on AR by a PH(or PH's wife) this week.
It reminds me of my first close encounter with buffalo. We were headed down into a valley to check out a large herd and before we had went very far the herd began moving through an open amphitheater 25 yards below us. We watched as the entire herd slowly filtered through, but there were no good bulls.

I remarked that I was glad that there were no good bulls as I didn't want my first buffalo "handed" to me. My PH replied, "Shit, a set-up like that is a PH's dream."

From a client's perspective: we want more of the total experience. I would feel a bit shortchanged, personally.

Rich
DRSS

This is ridiculous. You have to take them when you can get them. I have gone home without a leopard on 4 occasions. Would I turn it down on the first night? Heck no. My last leopard, taken in 07 in TZ, came in on the first afternoon I sat. I guess that helped make up for the many times I sat and went home empty handed.

For whatever it is worth, I had 4 trail cameras with me last October in the Save. Did I get a leopard? NO. The only thing it helped us do was identify male or female. We were pretty sure they were females before hand. The camera just verified it.

Congratulations on the leopard.

quote:

o, you hunt barehanded and naked, right, as otherwise you are just bitching about something you don't LIKE, but you are willing to use all the other technohunting...

you don't fish in a desert, do you?

i bet you use a metal knife, a SCOPE, leather shoes, a jacketed bullet in a brass case, with smokeless powders and a primer ... and chui has been taken with a simple spear, .. a broken branch, by barefoot natives

can't stand hypocrites

Boy oh boy.... you guys who take a concept, push it to its furthest limit to try to make a point are really missing the point and making yourselves look foolish in the meantime.

Let me be clear, i'll type slow...

Everyone has their limits as to what they consider 'ethical,' their style', 'honorable' etc. I simply stated my view of the situation as I see it, period. I happen to think there is a right way to do things and a wrong way and each person makes up his limits as to what he accepts.

I love it how you guys cal me a hypocrite and say that because I don;t think having another person scout your animal and you simply pull the trigger is not acceptable, you think that the next step is that the hunter mist eschew ALL forms of technology. That is utter bullshit and unsound logic. The next step from not hunting in this manner is not to go barefoot with a sharp stick, oh, sorry, would have to be a club because to sharpen a stick takes technology; it is a ridiculous argument.

This isn't an argument of 'first-day' success. It's about the mindset of how one approaches hunting in the first place. Quickest and easiest to the goal post, or put in the hard work (however you define it) and see if it pays off.

A while back I made a topic on what you consider to be your favorite item from your safari's etc. Almost to a person, experience/memories was the most common response. I think if you'd ask them why, it would take longer that three sentences to explain a hunt, an animal, an evening around the fire, etc. This is what I am talking about.

If you don't know where I am coming from, I can't help you. I don;t ask anyone to agree with me (just as I don't agree with many people/topics) but if you stop to think about something other than the 'ends' of a hunt, I think you'll start to see where I sit.

We read books, and extoll the virtues of excellent posts like JudgeG's post and laud the writer and thank him for putting us there and letting us experience a little of what they felt when they were there. That's the goal. Again, it's not about first-day success, it's about the overall mentality of your approach to hunting.

I'm finished posting on this thread. If anyone wants to continue, start a thread somewhere else (I guess politics is the place apparently) and we can take it from there.

Cheers.

Very nice cat. Congratulations!

I wondered if this would degenerate into an "All or None" use of technology pissing contest. The question has been answered, and "ALL" seems to be ahead.

The sad part is most of the hunting companies and PH's seem to come down on the "if it's legal I certainly will/Every advantage I can get..." side of the issue.

Does this seem like those who pay the bills are generally expecting more, and those who get the $$$ are trying to do it as fast as possible?
What do you do with those extra days?

Again, "which side would you take, if PH's got paid every morning one day's Daily Rate?".

Rich

my first leopard took 54 days to bag. the next one 3 hours. I'll take the 3 hr stint anytime. can't help but wonder how many nay sayers ever hunted leopard

In my opinion, there is nothing more ethical than the use of a trail camera when hunting leopard. Those of you who have partaken in this challenging hunt will know how tricky it can be, and a trail camera helps hunters to significantly reduce the odds of shooting the wrong cat. From all perspectives this can only be a good thing - landowner, operator, PH and client. Nobody wants to shoot a little female breeder now do they? And judging leopard in poor light can be extremely difficult. Yes, even with artificial light.
The use of trail cameras to positively identify the correct target is the kind of positive practice which wins us the support of the 'neutrals'. Those people who are not hunters but not crazies either, and who are able to appreciate the value of well-managed, sustainable hunting.

I have been in contact with Chris, and his post to me this morning has made a tremendous difference in my opinion of this hunt.

What bears repeating, is that this gentleman is in his seventies (I hope I look that good then) and has what may be some terminal health issues. His wish is to take the Big Five before he leaves us.

Circumstances change the situation.

I offer my humble apologies to this gentleman, and to Chris here.

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Chris,

Congratulations on a great hunt and as for those who criticise the methods used for the leopard perhaps they could tell us how many leopards they've hunted and how they did it?

Leopard hunting is like a chess game and the skill is in getting a suitable/shootable cat on bait and in a shootbable position..... not in the actual shot at the cat.

I wonder how many of those who criticise the use of a bit of modern technology to get the cat into that position would have the testicular fortitude to go out into that dark night ALONE to face the cat they've wounded because they chose not to use that technology?

.......................

I'm certain they would do it with a bow and arrow, or spear and no light! Yeh right!

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
This is ridiculous. You have to take them when you can get them. I have gone home without a leopard on 4 occasions. Would I turn it down on the first night? Heck no. My last leopard, taken in 07 in TZ, came in on the first afternoon I sat. I guess that helped make up for the many times I sat and went home empty handed.

I agree with everything you said above. You do have to take them when the opportunity presents itself, even if that is the first hour of the first day.

But I sure wouldn't want all of my trophies to come without any work. The experience is the most important part of the hunt. With all of the technology available today we are walking a fine line in keeping hunting "hunting" and not reducing it to "shooting".

I'm not saying that a trail cam crosses the line, but it's not far off. I have no problem using a trail cam to sex a leopard, but using it to pattern a leopard is going a bit to far for my tastes. But to each his own....

And for those of you who think using a trail cam for patterning is OK, I would ask you what is not OK? Would it be going too far for the PH to pattern the trophy males in his concession by darting them with a GPS tracking device? What about using night vision and a laser pointer on leopard at night the way bongo are taken in some areas?

I'm sure as heck not implying that trail cams are the same as tracking devices of night vision. I am only asking, where does it end?

For some, there is no end and no limitations on what they would do.

Because, for some, the hunt is something they have to endure in order to kill something. For some of us, the hunt is the thing, killing something just validates your effort. Easy has no value...

Rich
DRSS