I am looking at buying my first big bore in a 375 H&H M70 safari. I know that the pre-64s were the best then the winchesters suppposedly went south for quite a few years and recently their quality has improved. How recently. The one I'm looking at is "a couple years" old and has crf. Is this one of the better ones or is it possible to say from this description?

Thanks for the help.

The ones that were built in the 1990s were pretty good for the most part. The version that was built before the "LT" stock series was generally the best. These rifles feature a moderate Monte Carlo stock, a red Pachmayr recoil pad (marked "Winchester"), retain the pre-64 firing pin stop screw in the bolt sleeve, and are under serial number G250,000 or thereabouts. I have a .458 Win. Mag. of this description from 1995, and after rebedding, etc., this rifle is superbly accurate, and the metal and stockwork is of excellent quality, at least for the money.

If you're looking for a pre-64 Model 70, I prefer the ones built between 1952 and 1956, and in the 200,000 thru 300,000 serial number range. These feature superb metalwork, good woodwork, and usually exhibit fine accuracy, without any of the archaic "pre-war" features. I'm only interested in the Monte Carlo-stocked pre-64s, since the old-style "regular" or low-combed stock simply doesn't work with a scope -- not unless you have a head shaped like one of the zebras you'll be hunting.........

AD

I have one of the first Mod70s in 375 H&H when Winchester decided to come to it's senses and re-intoduce Controlled Round Feed. Like Allen says, it is a great rifle. I took mine to Africa and with my handloads, consistently produce less than 1" groups. The pre-64s are superb, but pricey, especially in that caliber. The new-older ones are out there, a good tip is to look for the firing pin stop screw, etc., just like Allen says. jorge

Got a pre 64 375 made in 1954 last year. Shoots 3/4 inch groups with hand loads and puts softs and solids in the same holes at 100 yards. I paid 1500 for this one and its worth every penny. Also it will never be worth less if I dont modify it. Look at Dave Riffle gun sales .com for a list of high quality pre 64 rifles. Note that these rifles represent high quality and coresponding high price.. They can be had for cheaper if you have time to look.

I own a new model 70 Safari Express in .375 H&H. It has a smooth action and it feeds well. It also shoot well.

I like the Matt black finish. It also come with a 2nd recoil lug and two cross bolts.

If you are looking at one a couple of years old then the main thing to check is if the magazine box is "crimped in" at the rear. By that, I mean the rear plate of the box with be "xyz" in width but the body of the magazine will be narrower immediately in front of the rear plate of the box.

If it is one of those I would want to check if it feeds before I bought it because a lot of them will not feed the second cartridge.

Mike

I'll have to disagree with Allen. My 300H&H has the low comb stock and works well with an old 4X Leupold in low rings.

I tried the web site you mentioned (dave riffle gun sales .com) and couldn't find it. Do I have the site wrong?

I have a Model 70 Safari in 375H&H that I purchased about 2 1/2 years ago. I didn't mess with it much until I found out a few months ago that my wife bought me a safari. Since then, I have had nothing but trouble with it.

It shoots bad... 2 1/2" - 4"(sometimes) groups... generally 2 1/2".

Apparently, there is something whacked out on the receiver, as my first indication was that I couldn't rotate the power selector ring on my Leupold VX1 2-7 when it was mounted. Further investigation reveals that when a straitedge is laid across the top of the Talley bases, the rear of the front base tips down .004" and the front of the rear base tips down .003". I also am very close to maxing out the internal adjustments in order to get the rifle zeroed.

Fortunately, it seems to feed fine, and it is a good looking rifle. Fit and finish are fine.... It just doesn't shoot worth a crap and my scope doesn't work on it.

Take out the spaces and you should have it.
Gary T.

I have a Left Handed M70, newer Controlled Round Feed. Since it was bought to simulate a M1999 LH 458 Lott for Gunsite Training and general practice (I've never owned CRF previously), it was sent to Jim Brockman for a "going over". Among the expected parts to be stoned and trued up, he was perplexed with the way it shot. Scope at near full adjustment, and he had to "glass in" the rear aperture sight waaay out left to get it to hit an 8" target at 50 yards.

He'd already rebored the scope mounts next larger size screws for strength, and it grouped well, just WAAAY right.

The culprit was finally tracked down to a barrel that was screwed in crooked. I don't know all the steps it took to correct it, but the rifle shot MOA at Gunsite with PMC Bronze Grade Ammo.

I've grown partial to the CRF concept, and can load, cycle, clear jams blind (part of the classwork), but it took a dedicated gunsmith days of non stop work and a pretty good bill (Jim didn't charge as much as he should) to get a "New in Box" rifle to work properly. That isn't saying much about Winchester's QC these days. This is only one example, but I have heard a few others, and that without asking.

Would I buy another, if I didn't have two M1999's in the works, yes. But I would also have them thoroughly checked out before "depending" on them.

Safe Hunting

Clint
From what I can tell (first CRF rifle), it is just fine now; however,

bmpregler... try www.daverifflegunsales.com comes right up on my search. Anybody that likes pre 64 winchesters should visit this web site. He has every caliber model 70 erer made. On average all his guns are 98 to 99 percent new. Has lots of never been fired ones also. He mbuys from other dealers and pays a good price for original model 70" in excellent. He is in florida. If you cant find him let me know and I will give you his phone number.