quote:

Originally posted by Badger Matt:
Thanks for the opinions, guys.

Karl - Thanks for jumping in. I had no intent of calling you out, just looking for opinions from much more experienced hunters than I. I'm considering a 2020 own use elephant hunt and am sure we could come up with language that would satisfy both of us.

quote:

Originally posted by Karl S:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Karl S:
Like all contracts, you are very unlikely to satisfy all parties right off the bat. I know I will never satisfy all people, no matter what my contract reads. But, and I have said it before, if its a deal breaker to any specific hunter, I am open to discussion on it, like on any other kind of contract. I try and run a business thats fair both ways, but have been burned too many times by non paying clients than the other way around. Thanks jdollar, bwana cecil and tarbe for the support!

If I was in your position, and get burnt by crooks who do not pay the money they promised to pay, I will plaster their names on every single hunting forum on the Internet.

It is people like these who ruin it for the rest of us.

The people I hunt with never give me a contract to sign, nor a bill to pay.

I get a call to transfer a specific sum of money, and it is done the same day.

Never a question of being over billed or not paying what is owed!

And that is how it should be!

Saeed, yes that is how it should be... but it is not!

quote:

Originally posted by Karl S:
Guys, that is my contract. It has never been necessary for a client to pay such an animal, but I have put in that clause to protect me from all possible outcomes. In the case that an animal is shot in self defense, MET does an investigation, and all cases so far, they have ruled that the shooting was legitimate, so no charge to anyone. Remember that in Namibia, an outfitter has to have insurance to cover him in case of professional liability. So if I or one of my PHs would shoot an animal for "Fun", and try and stick it to the client, then he can certainly claim it from our policy.
I had this part written in after an incidence with a client where we approached a specific elephant bull, full on intent to shoot it. When we came close, and set up the sticks, the bull swung around and charged. Remember we have already decided to shoot this bull. The client bolted, and I had to shoot the animal. Then he wanted me to file a self defense "claim", which I refuse to do. He dissected my contract, but in the end paid. That's when I decided to write this into the contract to protect ME. I have always told clients that's not happy with this T&C to scrap it from the hunting agreement, provided they can come up with something better. So, now's your chance, give me a better way to put this, bearing in mind that my contract is not pages long....

The operating word here is MAY.... not WILL
In the event of a hunt for dangerous game (including leopard, lion, elephant, buffalo, hippo, crocodile, rhino, but not limited to), or in the event of a plains game hunt in an area that holds dangerous game, the client remains responsible for any payments that may be due to the private land owner(s)/ government/ conservancy members, in the event that a dangerous animal has to be shot in defence of human life, whether shot by the PH, the client, or anyone accompanying such hunt, and whether the shot animal was targeted or not, wounded or not, pursued or not.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
As a lawyer, I like a contract. It sets the basic parameters of what the parties expect. I really don't have a problem with the clause in Karl's contract and after his explanation, I see why it's there. If the client breaks and runs, stupid as that is, and it necessitates that the animal be killed, the client should pay and be glad to be alive. If you don't trust your PH to only shoot when necessary, you shouldn't be hunting with that PH.

My problem with the people I hunt with is that they won't enforce the contract against me. Cancelled trips, forfeiture of deposits, and other terms that benefit him. So while we always have a contract, that just defines what we expect to happen. Given all the slack I've been cut over the years, I could never strictly enforce it against him either. But I'd never want the outfitter or PH to be out money because of my actions.

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Originally posted by Saeed:
The problem is really comes down to people not accepting certain thing in life, and taking responsibility for their own actions.

Anyone wants to bet this all came about because of all the silly litigation one sees nowadays?

And courts decisions can be anywhere from right to tally wrong?

I set on an arbitration committee.

We deal with financial disputes.

We charge no fees.

We refuse to accept anyone bringing in his lawyer.

Our desicion is final.

Almost 90% accept it.

The rest go to court.

And every single one who gone to court has tried coming back to us, because of all the costs, and length of time it takes to solve a problem that could have been sorted out with a bit of common sense.

On a number of occasions, I have shot the wrong animal.

Due to one reason or another.

On every occasion, I left the decision to my professional hunter.

Sometimes I was charged, on others I was not.

Example one.

I was shooting a kudu, with zebra standing way to the right, and behind him.

The bullet passed through the kudu, changed direction drastically, and killed a zebra 35 yards away!

I paid for both, and took the zebra skin.

I wounded a blessbok in South Africa, and while trying to finish him off, my professional hunter pointed the wrong animal to me, twice.

Is shot both, and we all laughed about it, and was not charged for either.

I would have been happy to pay for them, and take whatever I wanted from them.

We had a wounded blue wildebeest go into a herd of rhinos.

We were warned to be careful of our shot, otherwise it might be a very expensive mistake.

I finished the wildebeest without any problem.

I made sure the wildebeest was furthest away from any rhino, and the responsibility was totally mine.

If I had shot a rhino, I would have no argument about paying for it.

As several members have mentioned above, it all boils down to having a bit of common sense.

And I do know that SOME clients and SOME professional hunters do not have any at all.

Hence all this fuss.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I hunt for my enjoyment.

Not for trophies.

I refuse to hunt anything that has an escalating price, like in Europe and some other places.

An animal should cost the same price, not according to the size of his horns or tusks.

I get invited to go and hunt in Europe by friends, I have refused to go for this very simple reason.