Hi folks,

I'm starting to think about handloads for buffalo for my .375 H&H. With the day off and half a monsoon going on outside, I spent the morning going through some references (Woods, Boddington, Robertson), looking for ideas about solids. I really like the idea of homogeneous solids. Woods suggested that it might be a good idea to drop a step in bullet weight, ie from 300 grs to 270 grs, when using homogeneous bullets. His idea being that you'd save a bit of case capacity and be able to keep the velocity up with these long bullets. Having never hunted buffalo (though I did come pretty close to booking a hunt last week), I'd like to hear the thoughts of those who have some experience.

Thanks,
Dean

Dean,
Stay with the 300gr solids...you want mass and weight...Also you will get penetration and keep velocity in the 2300 to 2400fps...Will work super...IMO to much velicity is not a good thing on DG..

Mike

I agree, keep the weight up.

Maki,

Of the solids I use and have seen used, the ones I prefer are Trophy Bonded and Woodleigh.

In my 458 Lott, I use Trophy Bonded and Wodleighs in my 450 3 1/4.

I have recovered only two of the Trophy Bonded and one of the Woodleighs. All looked new other than the rifleing marks.

Barnes are good as well, and I have seen quite a few of them. Trophy Bonded, Woodleigh or Barnes, they will all do you well.

It is difficult to evauluate solids on animals when they drop at the shot and the bullets you do recover all look like they performed properly.

I would stay with the 300 grain for your 375.

As I said, my personal choice would be Trophy Bonded or Woodleigh.

Push come to shove, I think I would choose the Trophy Bonded if II was limited to just one.

My 2 cents worth.

Best,
Phil
http://www.go-on-safari.com

Maki,

Welcome to the AR forums. The amount of experience and knowledge you'll find here regarding African/dangerous game hunting is almost unlimited. You can get a lot of input regarding specific bullet brands and loads.
But, IMO, it comes down to a couple of siginificant points.

1. The solid is job specific. Penetration, break bones, turn a charge and probably leave an exit hole to assist in blood trailing, if necessary. In these cases, I say use the heaviest bullet you can get your rifle to shoot.

2. My .375 and my .458 Lott shoot both softs and solids to the same point of aim. Why worry with trying to get your rifle to shoot two types of bullets to the same point?

3. The range of excellent premium bullets is extensive. Try several and I'll bet you'll find at least one or two that your rifle loves. I've never seen a .375 that didn't shoot well. I like the Barnes bullets but there many here who sing the praises of the Northfork. You'll find one you and your rifle really like.

Enjoy the range work and go ahead and book that hunt. Do it now...you're not getting any younger and the trips aren't getting any cheaper.

Bull1

I'd also suggest you keep with the heavier bullet - and assuming you're using a bolt rifle I'd suggest you use a monolithic solid rather than an FMJ. Robertson recommends the Stewart mono solid and I've had brilliant results with them as well. Ken Stewart will make any profile you want so if you like a flat nosed or even cupped mono solid he'll even make them.

I've seen more Trophy Bonded FMJ failures than all the other FMJs put together - but many other hunters seem to like them.

Let me say, as others have, use the heavy bullet. When loading them, if all you have loade is softpoints, the back down a little on your load if useing a Monolithic solid like the Barnes. The Bronze solid builts more chamber pressure than a soft point. If useing the North Fork flat point, or Cup point, then start with the load you use for your soft. Sometimes you need to up the load for the NF bullet, and with a cup point, you don't need any soft points, so one bullet/load is all you need! No confusion! Addtionally if your 375H&H hapens to be a double rifle, the NFs will work fine in it. Regular Monolithics, however, are risky in a double.
In my 375 H&H bolt rifles I like the Barnes 300 gr Monosolids, and have had very good luck with them. However today, I think I'd simply go with a 300 gr Northfork cup point for everything up to Elephant. For Ele I'd use the flat point North fork! The NF cup point is what I plan on useing in all my double rifles from 470NE down to 9.3X74R from now on.

In any case what ever you decide to use, place them right, and often, and most will do a good job for you, but I'd stay with the heavies in any case!

Thanks for the input guys, I think I'll start with the 300gr Barnes and go from there.

What got my attention about using 270gr vs 300gr is that I'm working on a 270gr Barnes X load at the moment. This load is to go to Namibia next June on my first African hunt. Now I don't need a .375 H&H for a PG hunt, but I knew the first hunt would goad me into another where I would need something at least that large. May as well get some experience with the gun before hand .

Dean

Maki,
If you decide to use lead cored solids, stay with the 300gr bullet. If you go the monometal route, drop at least 10% off the weight to 270gr and increase the speed accordingly.

Gerard is right.

Alot of good information, however, I tend to favor Gerard and 500grains way of thinking as to weight and velocity.

Last year and this year I will be using a 375 H&H with 270 grain Barnes TSX at 2720fps velocity and very accurate. I use my 375 H&H as a back-up Buff gun and plains game rifle. I will also be using North Fork Cup Points in my primary Buff Gun this year....

There are alot of good bullets out there today. My preference is for the mono-metals and higher velocity seems to make them work all the better...

Gerard,

I'm sure that you know more about it than I do, but can ask why you advise that.

I load my .500 Jeffery with softs at 105 grains & solids at 103 grains. Both softs & mono solids are 535 grains and at those loadings I get the same muzzle velocity and same POI. - Surely changing the bullet weight of one type of bullet will change the POI between soft & solid?.....

Maki,
I have just gotten finished preparing for a major hunt in Tanz. I would agree that you should use the heavy solid; however, be advised that it must "harmonize" with your soft point. I played merry Ned trying to find a bullet and powder that would do this, going through several soft points and several solids.

Point is, don't get locked into thinking monolithic or FMJ, I'd look at several manufacturers' solids and soft points in the 300gr flavor, and pick the ones that shoot to the same point of aim. Kudude

Shakari,
You could do the same with monos with a solid and an expanding bullet of the same weight. Vary the speed slightly to compensate for the worse BC and different harmonics of the solid. If you use an expanding mono it should also be 10% to 20% lighter than a lead core bullet.

Whatever combination one decides on would require some experimentation and it is never possible to have two bullets of differing construction that fly along the same path to the target. I would not fret much about a diverging point of impact of up to 2 inches at 100between a soft and a solid.

Let me say that both ways work, and a Woodleigh solid or a monlithic will work fine on Buffalo..a 270 or a 300 will work...Only time I get picky is on elephant...

I like the Northfork cup points and you only need that one bullet, its as good as any solid, and as good as any soft on Buffalo, it expands and penitrates like the dickens...I also like the Bridger and Northfork flat nose solids and the flat nose kills better than any RN solid..

If you use a flat nose solid be sure it feeds in your gun..but one should do that with any bullet you intend to use on DG...

Gerard,

If I'm getting the same POI and the same MV with both types of bullet (actually 3 types. SP, PSP & MS) what can I gain by increasing speed or reducing weight of the mono?

(FWIW) The Bullets I'm using are 535 grain Woodleigh SP & PSP & Stewart Mono made to my own profile. My range shooting has been done at 20, 50 & 100 yards and all 3 types pretty much cloverleaf at all ranges......

Maki,

Up to a SD of about .300 you can keep the same bullet weig with a monometal.

Beyond that, ie with a 400 grain 416 or 500 grain .458, I would certainly drop down one bullet weight!

I cannot stabilize a 500 grain Barnes in a 1-10 twist at 2400 fps, yet the 450 grain does fine in a 1-14.

Your 300 grain 375 should stabilize in game OK. Try the North Fork FN and CP, you will be impressed.

Andy

Maki
Welcome, There are members here to share a wealth of info. You ask the very queston that I was as I just got a 375H&H. Thanks to all for such good input. I will let this go till it runs it's course then print it.

shakari,
Andy pretty much answered the question about stability. With solids that do not change shape on impact, it is important to have the bullet at the right length for stable and linear penetration. Monos are longer than lead core bullets of the same weight so you must drop down a notch on weight to keep the length right for the twist rate.

As the bullet is then lighter, bring the speed up accordingly to give similar momentum values and thus not lose out on penetration. In this scenario, energy of the lighter bullet will increase slightly over the heavier bullet, resulting in an increase in wound cavity volume.

If you have been achieving a good result with lead core solids and change to monos of the same weight, do not complain if your results do not improve or even worsens. Correct bullet length is more important than 10% difference in weight.

What would you gain by going to a mono? Monos, applied correctly, fail less frequently than lead core bullets.

Gerard,

I've not used FMJ solids for donkeys years. I use the Stewart monolithic solid and the Woodleigh SP & PSP. All are the same weight(535g) - the mono metal solid is considerably longer that the SP & PSP. - And I've never seen any trace of bullet tumbling. According to my "clock" all give much the same MV at 2200 fps. All shoot pretty much to the same POI at the ranges I tend to shoot the rifle at - usually pretty short range.

So would I gain anything by increasing the SP & PSP bullet weight? I appreciate the original advice was to drop the weight of the mono solid but I'm currently using the lightest available now.

Steve,
A strong point of the 500 Jeff is the standard CIP twist spec (1:17.7") that results in a stability factor in excess of 5 for the 535gr lead core bullets. Even the mono at that weight is over 4. This is partially why the 500 Jeff penetrates so deep and straight.

I would say that you have a pretty good setup and, if it aint broke, don't fix it. Going heavier on the Woodlieghs would reduce the possibility of a bullet breaking up too much but if that is not a problem now, why mess with a setup that works?

Going to longer bullets than what you are using currently will also reduce case capacity and the margin of tolerance to pressure on a hot day. There are many cases where one would be wise to heed the original dimensions used in cartridge designs. The solids are already 20% or so longer than the Woodleighs and, if you want to change anything, maybe reduce that a little. I am sure Ken would accommodate such a request. This would enable you to try both on similar media and decide for yourself which is better for you.

Thanks Gerard,

now I understand your point............ As you say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Do you think I'd gain anything by using a flat nose or cup pointed mono solid as opposed to the "flattish" round nose solid I'm currently using? -

I ditto invader66.


Hamdeni

quote:

Originally posted by invader66:
Maki
Welcome, There are members here to share a wealth of info. You ask the very queston that I was as I just got a 375H&H. Thanks to all for such good input. I will let this go till it runs it's course then print it.

Shakari,

The 50 caliber 535 grain has a SD of around .290 as I recall, a bit less than a 470 500 grain. I am not surprised it would stabilize in a monometal.

Some of the old English doubles had a twist of 1:21 and it is hard for me to think of a 1:17 as fast but guess it is by comparison!

1:10 is not too fast for any caliber that shoots monometals, whether they be expanding or solids.

Even a 465 grain 458 A Square starts to get unstable at 1:12 at 2500 fps.

Andy

So can I take it that you think my loads are about as good as I'm gonna get them? - I hope so, because I've just loaded everything for my Tanzanian season! - I've got to say that I'm very happy with the loads I have and would be suprised if they could be improved upon.....

Great info,can I apply the same to a 458Lott ?

Thanks for the help folks, lots of good stuff. The next problem will be finding the bullets. Evidently not as many people in southern Alberta go to Africa as I would have guessed. As of Saturday, there were only 4 boxes of factory loaded 300gr .375 H&H ammunition to be had in Calgary, and about the same number of bullets for reloading (all Hornaday and to be honest there is one shop that might have some that I didn't call).

Dean