Someone just sent me a link to the Norma site:

Norma .375

where they are showing some 350 grain loads for the .375 H&H in their African PH series. This is the first I have heard of a .375 in this grain and was wondering if anyone here has experience with this round or knows anything about it? I can't even find it for sale anywhere. It seems a great idea (if it works) and would be great for Buffalo showing a couple of hundred foot pounds of energy above other 300 grain loads. My big question is, why hasn't this been done before and what are the tradeoffs/problems associated? Thanks.

I have some 350 woodleighs loaded up for testing as we speak. They're going to the range on Sunday for some chrony work.

I too like the idea. Atkinson has a fair bit of experience with these and likes them a lot. Maybe he'll chime in on this one.

David

My friend Thornell reloads 350s in his .375. Maybe he can shed some light on the subject? LDK

If you care, Double Tap Ammunition loads the 350gr Woodleigh in the 375 H&H. Click on the link below to check it out...

375 H&H 350gr Woodleigh

Cheers,

Maurice

Enigma,

I saw that link before. 2450 at the muzzle is pretty hot. I'm shooting for 2400. Over a 24hr. a fellow load them with 70gr. of H4350 to get right at 2350 with a 24" barrel. The max load I've found looks to be 72gr. of H4350. It has a reported mv of about 2450, but I don't depend on those numbers.

I'll have more to report next week.

David

Kevin Robertson, in his book, "Africa's Most Dangerous". Writes quite abit about, heavey for caliber bullet use. Including the 350gr 375H&H load.

Keith

I believe Kevin Robertson has a an article in the most recent Sports Afield about this topic. He seems to be a big advocate of heavier bullets in the .375.

Rhino bullets in South Africa makes both 350 grain and 380 grain bullets for the .375. They seem popular down there.

Hello x2mosg,

Double Tap and company like them use powders not offered to us reloaders. They have a load for the 260gr Accubonds that are listed at 2900 fps out of a Winchester M70 24" barrel. They say the pressures never exceed 58000 PSI...

quote:

Originally posted by G L Krause:
Someone just sent me a link to the Norma site:

Norma .375

where they are showing some 350 grain loads for the .375 H&H in their African PH series. This is the first I have heard of a .375 in this grain and was wondering if anyone here has experience with this round or knows anything about it? I can't even find it for sale anywhere. It seems a great idea (if it works) and would be great for Buffalo showing a couple of hundred foot pounds of energy above other 300 grain loads. My big question is, why hasn't this been done before and what are the tradeoffs/problems associated? Thanks.

Supposedly Kevin Robertson, author of "The Perfect Shot", worked with Norma to design the new line of PH ammo. In the bolt gun calibers they went with heavier than normal bullets at somewhat reduced velocities.

Some people subscribe to that theory. Others subscribe to the Weatherby theory of high velocity, but with a standard weight or lighter weight bullet.

Try some of the new Norma ammo out and let us know what you think.

500 grains,

I just checked the Norma site and they appear to have wimped out on the 450 Rigby, using a 450 grain bullet at 2,100 fps?

The 470 and 500 Nitro are std weight for doubles, and the 458 Lott std 500 grain but at just 2,100 fps.

So only the 375, 416 Rem, 416 Rigby, and 404 have the heavier than normal bullet weights.

Has anyone chronographed this ammo?

Andy

The 350gr Woodliegh PPSN over 67gr of RL 15 gave me 2400fps from my 25in barrel M70. Very accurate, very low sd. I have loaded the solids but have not had a chance to chrono those. Ray got me started on this load and has shot some buff with excellent results with a similar load. I am staying at this level because I have no adverse pressure signs with it although next time we top 100 degrees, I'll let some shells sit out in the sun a while and check again. That ought to tell the tale before we get to the Selous!

They have som type errors on the Norma page, it is the 550 grain bullet they load with, i saw it in the brochure there .

Its an interresting concept of making ammo for the pros as they want it, so it will be used much in the coming years.

As, David mentioned I have loaded the 350s for buffalo. I used them on a buffalo in Australia, and got great penetration. I will be using them on my next trip to Tanzania in sept. If you need some load info give me a PM.

Also, I have heard that Federal is also loading the Woodleigh 350s in their premium line.

I use 350 grain Woodleigh protected points and solids in my 375H&H Parker Hale with results. I use 72 grains of 2209 (Australian powder) for good accuracy, at about 2350fps.

The only issue this that these longer projectiles need to be seated deeper into the case to allow live rounds to cycled out of my action.

Shot the 350gr Woodliegh solids today. Worked up to 67gr of RL15 which gave MV of 2375 ave, sd of 5. Very accurate load and close enough to the softs that the buff will never notice.

The 350grn Woodleigh's have the best penetration from a bullet that I have seen.

I haven't gone above 300 grains. It's an interesting concept that merits a closer look. Has anyone done penetration testing?

This does seem to merit closer a closer look. Question for you serious reloaders out there. Why so long to develope for what seems to be obvious and easy performance upgrade for DG? Is there something that would make these heavier bullets problematic?

Kevin Robertson gave a presentation at the SCI convention last January and talked at length about bullets and ballistics, with the emphasis on hunting for Cape buffalo. He recommended the 350 grain .375H&H for buffalo because he thinks lower velocity and greater bullet weight works better, particularly on frontal chest shots.

On the other hand, Craig Boddington told us that in his opinion using 350 grain bullets in the .375H&H sacrifices the versatility of the .375H&H and did not recommend 350 grains unless you are hunting Cape buffalo only and aren't interested in anything else.

Here's my take on the 350. At the right velocity, it has more energy and momentum and also has a higher sectional density. Out of the 375H&H, it seems to work well, especially if you push it up to around 2400-2450.

As for utility, you're gonna give up some trajectory from the 300 and especially the 270, but that's just a matter of practice and knowing the gun and bullet. On the calculators, IIRC, zeroed at 150, you're 1.3 high at 100 and like 2.2 low at 200. So pretty much hold dead on out to 200. That's very workable in my opinion. And if Buff is on the menu, I'll give up trajectory for the extra energy and penetration, especially when I'll have a lighter rifle along for the ride.

quote:

Supposedly Kevin Robertson, author of "The Perfect Shot", worked with Norma to design the new line of PH ammo. In the bolt gun calibers they went with heavier than normal bullets at somewhat reduced velocities.

Some people subscribe to that theory. Others subscribe to the Weatherby theory of high velocity, but with a standard weight or lighter weight bullet.

Try some of the new Norma ammo out and let us know what you think.

I will hunt buffalo with Kevin "Doctari" Robertson in Mocambique, Cuotada 12in beginning of Oct, and yes I will use 450 grains Norma African PH in my .404 Jeffery

Did the chrony testing with the 350's this morning. I loaded one round with each powder charge just to check for pressure signs, of which there were none. The results were roughly what I was expecting, maybe a little slowere than I had hoped for. But none were loaded to max. suggested charge. I only had solids on hand so I backed down 1 grain from the max load and loaded 4 rounds, dropping in 1 grain increments. The following was my results out of my M70 with 24" barrel, with Rem. cases and federal primers:

H414 68gr. - 2301fps
69gr. - 2314
70gr. - 2361
71gr. - 2379

H4350 68gr. - 2284
69gr. - 2281????
70gr. - 2338
71gr. - 2361

The 69gr. of H4350 seems to be a bad reading, and I'm guessing it would be around 2310. While I was there I tested some loads with 300gr. Barnes TSX. Same case, primer and rifle. Before I post the first set of numbers, I want to go ahead and say that the RL15 loads gave much higher velocities than I expected. These were all verified with the other guy I was shooting with. We also checked the chrony with other known rounds to make sure it was on. These were shot at roughly the same time as all the other loads, and there were no signs of excessive pressure whatsoever. I was shocked. Here goes:

RL15 70gr. - 2613fps
71gr. - 2676
72gr. - 2734
Again, much higher velocity than I expected with these. Loads from Barnes manual.

IMR4064 65gr. - 2467fps
66gr. - 2494
67gr. - 2518
These were more what I was expecting.

David

I found that my groups tightened up quite a bit with the 350 grain bullets in my Win M70.

We handloaded a few to try them out.

This makes me a believer and it leaves me hoping that Swift builds a 350 grain A-frame bullet.


BTW: here is what Woodleigh sent us

Use Federal 215 primer

68-72 grains H4350 or IMR 4350 for 2300-2380 fps

We have not tried 4064. I think it would be a bit fast for the 350gr bullets.

Regards,

Geoff McDonald.

WOODLEIGH BULLETS
PO Box 15, Murrabit, VIC, 3579, Australia
Ph. 61 3 5457 2226
Fax. 61 3 5457 2339
zedfield@iinet.net.au
www.woodleighbullets.com.au

quote:

Originally posted by husky:

quote:

Supposedly Kevin Robertson, author of "The Perfect Shot", worked with Norma to design the new line of PH ammo. In the bolt gun calibers they went with heavier than normal bullets at somewhat reduced velocities.

Some people subscribe to that theory. Others subscribe to the Weatherby theory of high velocity, but with a standard weight or lighter weight bullet.

Try some of the new Norma ammo out and let us know what you think.

I will hunt buffalo with Kevin "Doctari" Robertson in Mocambique, Cuotada 12in beginning of Oct, and yes I will use 450 grains Norma African PH in my .404 Jeffery

husky,

I for one will be very interested to hear about your hunt and the perfomance of the Norma load in your 404. Sounds like it will be fantastic on buffalo

quote:

Originally posted by JohnHunt:


BTW: here is what Woodleigh sent us

Use Federal 215 primer

68-72 grains H4350 or IMR 4350 for 2300-2380 fps

We have not tried 4064. I think it would be a bit fast for the 350gr bullets.

Regards,

Geoff McDonald.

WOODLEIGH BULLETS
PO Box 15, Murrabit, VIC, 3579, Australia
Ph. 61 3 5457 2226
Fax. 61 3 5457 2339
zedfield@iinet.net.au
www.woodleighbullets.com.au

Thank you.

I wonder how that would work on a ele, 375 H&H with the 350grain woodleigh solid?

If I was to hunt Ele with a 375, I would prefer to use the 350s over the 300grn bullets from what I have experienced.
ozhunter

Not trying to hijack the thread but Huskey, what velocity are you getting out of the 404/450g combo. Sounds interesting. "D"

http://www.norma.cc/content.asp?Typ=55&Lang=1&DocumentI...mless%20NE%20Jeffery

2150 fps with the 450 grain load .