Suppose you had an illness that had been taking you down for a couple years. It appears the prognosis is not good, but could take even longer, and probably rob you of your dignity in the process. You have a few options:

1) Fight like a brave, and let your family, including young children watch, but ultimately bury you...perhaps in Africa if you're lucky.

2) Go on a dangerous game hunt and let the cards fall where they may, by taking foolish risks, but that only endangers the staff, and frankly thats not cool (death by Sullivan).

3) Take that same hunt, work all week, hunt like a fool, until you're drop-dead thrashed, then wait until dark, wade out into the Zambezi with your DGR after the Mopani fire is dead and wash down to a "safe" and quiet place far from camp and disappear? Or die on your cot?

All three will leave a different legacy, but ultimetely, the last two are hugely different than the first, where you go down with a fight but ultimately just a tuft of ash thrown out of a boat or plane.

I buried another friend today, and all I seem to remember was the illness. I'd prefer to to go the AFRICAN way..

Thoughts?

PS, Sorry to be a bummer......

if i knew for shure i was gonna die i would try hunting lion with my sword. battle to the death.

im a dead man anyways might as well go out in a fight.right.

Mark
I hope that you are OK. I will assume that you are not making any plans....

Anyway I have always told myself that I would go with my dignity intack. But that was when I was single. Now that I am entering into the "starting a family phase" my thinking has changed. I think that a man owes it to his loved ones to endure the pain and spend every moment with them, for their sake. Going out in a blaze of glory sounds nice but is pretty selfish in the end.

But.... If I were single I would head out and take the Big 5 on, on my own. If I fell into trouble with the law I would do like Hemmingway and make myself my last trophy.

Jason

NOT THAT sick and morbid. Anyone who has ever gone in harms way at one time or another, considers their own demise and how would they handle it if they had the "luxury" of knowing the approximate time due to such diagnosis or the circumstance would dictate(think Titanic).

I actually figured if I ever came down with something terminal that once I made sure all the paperwork was done, I would hop a float plane and get dropped off in the remotest bush of Alaska I could find with a view. I have watched too many relatives die that long lingering death and I will NOT take that course.

I am getting used to burying people. I dont take it all too seriously anymore.We are all terminal in one way or the other,some just get a longer life sentence on earth than others.
There are enough things that can get you out there, dont help them along. There are alot of people who never get achance to be on earth, so every day is a bonus to those who are here.Make the most of them.Everything is one day at a time no matter who you are in this world.
A friend of mine continuelly wanted to kill himself afew years ago,I eventually said I will help ya if need be if it will make ya happy, he got a shock and changed his mind and his life.
Another idiot drank some poison the other day and came running in for help, quite hillarious.
I guess they feel they have f**cked up their life, and from what I can tell they have, cause they could not even get their supposed last act right.
Sounds like you need a new focus in life.Part of that focus needs to be steered toward the solution, not the problem.Its all about ones attitude and a willingness to take their life in the correct direction.You will find that direction if you are sincere to yourself. Endulge yourself in a bit of self pitty, that human, but dont dwell on it. Through that you will naturally discover that it aint the long term or smartest solution.
I feel much safer flying a Squirrel(below) than being in a city full of mentally compressed&unpredictable people. Despite what silly fears the average person has of flying,I know what Im doing is much safer. I know precisely what that machine will do when I give it an input, with alot people though,one never really knows.
My friends die as a result of aircraft accidents also,but it dont get me down.death is a hazard of living. At best all your worries are over when dead, but so are your chances of enjoying yourself. I have also learnt a person will enjoy life more if they dont take all of lifes events to heart.
Its really strange that some people are struggling to survive in this world ,while others are doing what they can to destroy themselves. So logic tells me it aint the world thats the problem,but ones perspective and outlook/attitude.

Been there done that, my friend. The ONLY option is your first. You have to be strong for your family and for yourself. You need to keep your faith in God. We don't fully understand His purposes, nor the suffering or trials that we are called upon to go through and experience, But in the end, believing in God and being strong for our family, friends and ultimately for our own selves is the best way to go. That will leave a legacy for your family that they can hold their heads up to. Just my humble opinion, based upon some similar experiences.

N'gagi,

In 24 years I have lost four of the best...closer than blood in many ways. I am sure most of you know exactly what I mean.
During one of our mystical "discussions" when not on a mission the subject of how we would handle the "end" if we knew it was coming.
I was a young troop on my first tour and after voicing my piece(most like lawcop as I did not want to burden others and being full of bravado yet) Rex asked me why such a selfish attitude?
He explained that family and yes, friends, need a time to help, to alleviate in a small way one's discomfort, gives them an opportunity to feel they have contributed to your well being and helps them accept the inevitable. Death in the presence of family provides some closure for them eliminating that terrible "unknown" element.
I did not understand until he said, "remember when you held Mud"? Guys, It was the worst experience of my life yet I felt better having held my friend even tho' there was nothing I could do to forestall his leaving us. In a small way it brought a closure to his death that gave me a measure of comfort. Yes, it hurt like hell and does to this day
I guess this doesn't make much sense just my feeling on this. N'gagi, I want you to know I share the burden of your loss with you in the spirit of brotherhood may God grant you the peace that eludes you now.
SFC E7

Live every day as if it was your last, hunt until you drop. Refuse chemo or whatever if that is your decision but make sure you get adequate morphine.

Don´t kill yourself, there is no dignity in that + you´ll be leaving a "legacy" of suicide being a solution to problems.

Which leaves your family at risk for suicides.

Most people can take watching a loved one die.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by cewe:
Live every day as if it was your last, hunt until you drop. Refuse chemo or whatever if that is your decision but make sure you get adequate morphine.

Dito...

Just yesterday a friend of mine died of cancer, age 44. He fought it till the end, aquick fight of 3 months. His family was there all the time and he actually worked at his job up until 10 days ago. Show strength and disipline and be a anchor point for your family.

N'gagi

Not sure how "the African way" avoids Mr. Hyena.
Don't know how you feel, but like your friends, I am praying / concerned. Thanks for checking in with everyone...

An aside would be this -- along with family grief, the PH and staff / safari company would have the same nightmare that hotel's are left with when someone decides to do a Hemingway while in their care.

Please know you are valued, being eternally worthwhile because of God's love to us all.

BNagel

(P.S. A hunter isn't afraid of thorns, and a man need not fear tears. Mine are for you at this moment.)

BNagel: Your PS is very touching -is that a quote? If not then you are quite the poet!

Another vote for taking it as it comes, but hunting lions with a sword, or boars with a spear, does sound pretty fun. Can't say I like the idea of being eaten though.

Unfortunately I deal with patients making such decisions on an all too frequent basis, particularly when the chemo/no chemo question doesn't really have a right or wrong answer, it's really just a matter of which way they want to go. It's amazing how sometimes someone wants to live just long enough to see a certain event, grandchild's graduation, daughter's wedding.... and what do you know, they make it and then dies a week later.


Even more important than the last day, and the way ones life finally ends are all the days between finding out one has a terminal condition, and the day life finally does end. That's the time to live life to the fullest. That's the time to book hunt you've always dreamed of. It should also be a wake-up call for anyone else that tomorrow may not come.

For the terminal who are in the last stages, Hospice is a wonderful organization.


To end on a lighter note, I personally want to go out peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming in sheer terror like the passengers in his car.

cewe

Not a direct quote, but a frequent poster on this forum has that African saying (about the thorns) in his tagline. N'gagi probably knows him, certainly not me. The rest is my own heart.

Bnagel -you have a good heart.

Mark,
I sure hope that this is a rhetorical question. My rhetorical answer (and I have cotemplated my own as well as witnessed many other's demise) is "screw it, I'm goin huntin"
All the best my freind
Russ

Mark, I'm distraught to even contemplate your questions. Firstly, in all things, trust in God. Secondly, whatever you do think through the repurcussions on those you love and those around you.

If you're going to off yourself, don't leave it to your loved ones or innocent bystanders to pick up the pieces. Also, don't just disappear (especially in a foreign country) where your body is never found. It could cause serious legal and financial complications for your family.

My advice is to be strong, be trusting and know that you'll make the right decisions for yourself and your family at the appropriate time.

As a psychologist, retired military, etc., etc., I've often had these same thoughts. When younger, my ambitions were to go out fighting. As I've matured, the ideas are more in line with Forrest's and a few others here. The family deserves some consideration and the chance to say goodbye.
Working with Hospice, where our concern is with the dying person, I've seen how the family reacts. The dying persons who have taken care of making peace with their family, set their estate up properly, and allow the farewells, seem to be in a better state of mind. Their family is is left in a better state of mind also.
If you have no family, do what pleases you. If you love your family, show it.

i think the type of illness is very important. I have watched a lot of family die, and although not old enough to start losing friends yet from natural causes I have had a couple I knew go out badly (accidents, suicide). Here is my take on it.

The WORST thing a person can do when they are older is be a burden for so long they erase all good memories from peoples minds. Right now my mother-in-law is helping her husband (my wife's stepfather) take care of his parents, this has been going on for at least a couple years now. they live 45 minutes away, the dad is in a home with altheimers, the mom is blind and keeps having accidents/ailments, goes to the hospital, then a home, then back to her home. So my wife's stepfather spends a lot of time out there, her mom ends up going out there to help too. When she is home there is a lot of time that her husband is otu taking care of his parents. She doesn't complain (amazing woman) and he obvioiusly doesn't want to abandon them. His mom though doesn't want to move out of her house (to a home full time). Apparently she is not able to, or doesn't care to, think about the strain on her son and his marriage.

Therefore, fast illness I say fight it, spend the time with your family. But if it is something that goes long, or is bad at the end (dimensia, have no idea who people are) look for soemthing else. I don't like the idea of suicide, but a real hard hunt etc. ???? I really don't know on that count, I just know that I hate the idea of my family seeing me turn into a different person.

but always have your affairs in order, no matter your age or condition. My wife and I both have each other as benificiaries and the baby as seconds. And I'm going to take a big policy out on my wife

Red

That's a tough question. I recently heard vetrinarians have very high suicide rates: they're used to that answer when we have to take care of our pets.

I have been through a bout of cancer. So far, so good... 6 yrs so far. It did tend to make me a little more selfish about my time. I am happy that I have been able to do a few things I had thought I might never have a chance to do. Maybe I can do more. I hope to leave behind something for the hunting community in my own state... that's a tough one: how to encourage younger people to become hunters, when soccer moms control so much that the kids get to do... we won't get the kids without the moms. (well -- that's something for me to worry about)

I have had too many friends fight Parkinson's. Nobody has won so far... one lost; the other game is still running. I am old enough that many of the friends I've had in the older generation have passed on, and some in my own are now gone... more and more as time ticks.

My wife has a cat -- her first pet in the world. He was already old when she got him. Now she has discovered how precious he is, and we have to treat him for kidney failure. Not hard--daily injections of 75cc's of ringers, with pepsin and a sqirt in the mouth of orvacs (sic) as an antibiotic. We backed of to once every other day for a while when his creatinine level got good -- but that was a mistake. Back to once/day. So far, he's comfortable, happy, weird as he's always been. My wife is unable to contemplate putting him to sleep and is terrified of the pain of loosing him. My own dog had bone cancer a few years ago -- I know the feeling. But I did what was "right." I know there's no way to stop the pain in the end.

I suppose hospice is a good answer... lots of morphine, no treatment for complications, no antibiotics, nothing but paliative care. No guilt from too-long survival. No stomach tubes. No overpowering memory of a suicide in the end.

Dan

Mark ..

That is a hell of a dilemma you mention ...

WE had a clients (over a year ago now) whom was faced with that very similar type of scenario, being a life terminating illness ..

Butch, although knowing of his terminal illness decided to hunt cape buffalo with us and although he (made his wonderful dream come true) Butch sadly passed away (less than two months) after returning back to Tennessee after the hunt. Those Southern men are sure made of the right stuff when it come to grit and determination. I can only marvel at his courage and fortitude

RIP Butch .... Peter

i had a 42 year old friend die of cancer after fighting it for 2 years 2 weeks ago, i would rather have a tusk up my asss for 5 seconds before i got stepeed on, it would be a cool way to die, and honestly when i'm out there i dont care if i do. if i did care i would go play darts or something safe

I would like to be humped to death by 6 or 8 nymphoes...


pass out after a massive orgasm and never wake up.

Thanks for all that responded. As we get older, we see more family and friedns go down. Some go down like a bolt, a total surprise, others like the one we buried last wee, had a lingering brain cancer and spent the last few months trying all kinds of alternate therapies and things that only seemed to make him worse. several of us from his school days met for a beer, and all we talked about was how had he had looked and recounted all the sad visits we'd made..

That got us all to thinking how we'd rather go, when the time comes. Getting old sucks.

Can a Choice be...

Roll off a good woman into a barrel of good whiskey and drown.

My dad fought the big casino (colon cancer) for just shy of five years. He worked as long as he could. He was in pain most of that time. He slowly withered away. The whole time I often thought that there was no way I would/could go through all that he he did.

I gave up a dream job in Alaska and moved back to Illinois to help take care of him. Those last three years ended up being the most valuable of my life. The memories of doing what little I could for him are the most joyful I have. When he died there was nothing left unsaid between us. No regrets, no, "I wish" this or that.

I think about him for a bit nearly every day; and I always smile.

Five years ago I told a patient (he was in his seventies, and did not have any close family) that he had the big casino, and that it was terminal. He left the clinic, went over to the funeral home with a friend, measured a casket by climbing into it, bought it, went home and capped himself. His buddies all joke that he was doing fine until he came in to see me.....

I think either way to check out is fine. A lot depends on your situation at the time.

As a medic in the Army I had some guys die while I was working on them. One time in particular is still fresh in my mind. Parachute malfunction, reserve rolled up into the main chute and he hit the drop zone doing about sixty. Everything was broken, and he had a flail chest. When my bag of tricks was empty (didn't take long back thenm) I just held his hand and looked into his eyes as they glazed over. I think (and hope) it was a comnfort to him to have someone around at the end.

LD

Lawndart,
We start off as the child, but years down the track,you can find oneself in reverse rolls.

quote:

Originally posted by N'gagi:
....spent the last few months trying all kinds of alternate therapies and things that only seemed to make him worse......
......Getting old sucks.......

The problem often is that people lead acertain lifestyle for many decades,then when some ailment or deep rooted condition presents itself and modern med. cant fix it, people panic and rush for an alternative,thinking that it will do it all in a few weeks or months. sometimes it does. But lets be fair,If a person spent several decades abusing themself (knowing or unbeknowing), and the body asks that you give it a reasonable figure of 5-10% of that time to allow it to correct things somewhat, once you employ some new methods, would you think that unreasonable?
I dont, So I would not be too hasty to condemn something for not showing the results you would like to see in a couple months or weeks.
You must also be aware that toxins that enter the body must also be eliminated by the body, often through the blood and organs.They have some work to do and get tired and laden in the process, hence the feeling of making someone feel worse than better.But that does not mean the process aint working.
As far as getting old well,you can find joy in things no matter how much time is left.
Imagine yourself at your own funeral, and asking yourself what is it that you really regret not having done in or with your life.
Any reason why you cannot get to doing them now?

There was a guy who spent his whole life trying to grow the perfect strawberry. He frustrated himself for years to the point of madness,till one day he threw himself of a cliff to end his torment. On the way down he hit a small ledge and stopped and held on as he began to slide. For a brief moment he looked up and saw on the ledge just above him the most perfect wild strawberry he had ever seen, far better than any he had imagined growing himself.
For a brief moment he was in absolute joy and amazement at the beauty and discovery of such.
He then realised he wasted much of his life trying to achieve his opinion of perfection,when he didnt really have to worry about such, cause a far better perfection effortlessly exhisted, without the need for his straining human efforts and vain imaginings.

Now, should the guy give up the ghost and fall to his death in anger & resentment cause he didnt get what he wanted in the way he imagined,or should he be appreciative and make a determined effort to get back up the ledge and get on with a better life with his new found wisdom and freedom?


His life was difficult and joyless cause of his own narrow mindset and obcession. He obligated himself to something he probably didnt really need to. It was his choice.
Some are fortunate in life that they dont have to wait so long for such realizations,and as a result have more time to get on with the more important things.