I haven't heard of too many peope using the .416 Taylor or .425 Express as a DGR lately? Anybody have any experience/success/disappointments with either? I'm going to have one or the other built on an Enfield P17 action (Remington made) and would appreciate some expert opinions. It'll be for my '09 cape buffalo hunt.

I would also be interested in hearing some first hand experience regarding the 416 Taylor. I know where there is one I can get for a 30 minute drive and about $500...

Brian

With the long action on the P17, why limit yourself to a .300 Win Mag length cartridge? If there is any complaint about either round, it is that it takes pretty high pressures to get to the 2400 fps velocity at which some tout the cartridges... and a sticky bolt in Africa ain't fun.... but

What the heck is the matter with a .423 or .416 diameter 400 grain bullet at 2300 fps if you load down a bit? But, you can easily make a .458 Lott on a P17 and get a 500 grain bullet at 2200 fps with moderate pressures, so, whatever floats your boat.

I forgot. Will/Bill Stewart wrote a very good article in African Hunter last year on the .416 Taylor and his building a lightweight rifle on a CZ action. Apparently, he doesn't like to tote heavy rifles and he was successful in building a really nice gun that's not a load to hump. Maybe that's in an archive?

Allout, where? I have one but at that price I could have 2.

D O J - you can have two. You DO have a PM.

Later - Brian

I have a 425 Express which I used as my backup rifle in Namibia last year. I really like this cartridge and its kissing cousin, the 416 Taylor. You can build either on any action you'd build a 375HH on. Both will pitch a 400gr bullet fast enough to do the job and as fast as you want to be behind it! (2300fps is about my limit.) Good bullets available in both calibers, and easy to load for.

I used the 425 to take my kudu and dik dik. The kudu was penetrated end to end (350gr Barnes X recovered in the off side front shoulder just under the skin), and the 400gr solid was in and out on the dik dik with minimal damage and a clean kill. For my purposes, both shot to the same point of aim.

I have no doubt it would have filled in for my 416 Howell had I needed it. Kudude

The .416 Taylor Revisited
So maybe there is room for just one more big .416
from Guns & Ammo, October 2006
by Craig Boddington
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/gun_columns/notes/0610/


To create his .416 Taylor, the author rebarreled a Ruger M77 with a fairly stiff 23-inch tube, giving it quite a bit of gun weight up front. This made it relatively stable and helped keep recoil manageable.


-Bob F.

Bob F -
You are killing me!!! That article is just more proof that I need to pony up the cash and go get the rifle.

Seriously though, thanks for posting that - good article. Some of Mr. B's lighter writing.
Brian

"quite a bit of gun weight up front"....Sounds like the RSM balance.

Here are a couple of Will (Bill Stewart) archival posts on his 416T...

2005 Elephant hunt report

Will's first 416 Taylor

Will's 2nd 416 Taylor (just pics, no details)

Cheers,
Canuck

I used the Taylor until the 416 Rem came out, then went to the Rem. I see no use for a wildcat cartridge anymore..The Rem or the Taylor can be made on a std. action like a Mauser 98 so go with the factory round, its argueably a better round anyway...

On the other hand why waste that big old action on a short round or a std. round, it was made for the 500 Jefferys or 505 Gibbs IMO..

quote:

used the Taylor until the 416 Rem came out, then went to the Rem. I see no use for a wildcat cartridge anymore..The Rem or the Taylor can be made on a std. action like a Mauser 98 so go with the factory round, its argueably a better round anyway...

So says the guy building a wildcat 416 Ruger (remind me...what can it do that the 416 Rem Mag can't???), who also shoots an ultra obscure ancient factory cartridge which might as well be a wildcat for all intents and purposes, the 10.75x68.

Another case of do as I say but not as I do, eh?

Or said another way, 'your actions doth belie your words, fine sir'.

At least the inconsistency is consistent though...we have had this same discussion before.

Cheers,
Canuck

quote:

Originally posted by Canuck:

quote:

used the Taylor until the 416 Rem came out, then went to the Rem. I see no use for a wildcat cartridge anymore..The Rem or the Taylor can be made on a std. action like a Mauser 98 so go with the factory round, its argueably a better round anyway...

So says the guy building a wildcat 416 Ruger (remind me...what can it do that the 416 Rem Mag can't???), who also shoots an ultra obscure ancient factory cartridge which might as well be a wildcat for all intents and purposes, the 10.75x68.

Another case of do as I say but not as I do, eh?

Or said another way, 'your actions doth belie your words, fine sir'.

At least the inconsistency is consistent though...we have had this same discussion before.

Cheers,
Canuck

Now Now........ I did not these posts were allowed.... GREAT POST

Actually, I got the story a little wrong.

Ray has had a barreled action in 416 Ruger built already....he is building a 404 Ruger...

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson )Posted 15 June 2007 23:26)
Well I didn't make it up to 458 but will you settle for a 416 Ruger...

I have a barreled action in 375 Ruger necked up to .416 cal. for sale. I had it built up by Jim Brockman on a real nice Mauser action I had, It's ready to stock, but I am building another in .404 Ruger..I may stock the .416 or sell it as is, I think I will keep the .404.

I think the 416 Ruger has a pretty good chance of actually being a factory round one day, but I'm willing to bet the 404 will be a wildcat for a long time.

Cheers,
Canuck

quote:

Originally posted by Canuck:

At least the inconsistency is consistent though...we have had this same discussion before.

Cheers,
Canuck

Do you get some sort of prize?

So Ray is getting a little old and forgetful. So what?

Let's just kill Ray and make you happy.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

So Ray is getting a little old and forgetful. So what?

Let's just kill Ray and make you happy.

For the record, I am against that.

Even though it would undoubtedly reduce the level of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.

You old geezers sure do stick together.

BTW, if forced to choose, I'd rather have the Taylor - although I'll live the rest of my life very happily without either one.

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:

Even though it would undoubtedly reduce the level of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.

It's not just the old timers...It might actually turn out that AR is the major causative factor in global warming.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

quote:

Originally posted by Canuck:

At least the inconsistency is consistent though...we have had this same discussion before.

Cheers,
Canuck

Do you get some sort of prize?

So Ray is getting a little old and forgetful. So what?

Let's just kill Ray and make you happy.

Puhh-lease, Will...

Sheesh.....I am not looking for a prize, and killing Ray would clearly not make me happy (also for the record. ). I am not part of the anti-Atkinson movement either (if there is such a thing).

But if a guy is going to express an opinion here, he should be prepared to defend it and/or take a bit of ribbing from those who differ.

Just because the guy's been around the block a few times doesn't make him automatically right, or above reproach. And don't tell me that you think Ray should get a pass on all potential disagreements because of his age, or your apparent sensitivity about it.

Given his resume, I would think that those reading these threads to learn might automatically place more credence on his opinion than others....I'd say that is reason enough for others to speak up if we think he is wrong, or hypocritical, or inconsistent, or whatever.

Further, I think Ray has known me long enough to know that we agree on many things and differ on a few, and that where we differ we are free to, and that my posts are not personal attacks. I make it a hard rule to never type anything here that I wouldn't say to someone sitting across the campfire from me. If this discussion took place in a coffee shop or at hunting camp, I would have said the exact same thing. And I think the 8 years or so that Ray and I have interacted here allows me some familiarity in my posts.

Cheers,
Canuck

Well put Canuck.Your diplomatic skills far outweigh mine. I would have just told him to take a flying fu*& at a rolling doughnut.

UH-OH - I feel a free plug coming on...
"Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $55 postpaid:
The Elephant Hunters, P.O. Box 104, Spring Hill, Kansas 66083 USA

quote:

Originally posted by fivebigbores:
In scotland in the early 1700's there was a group of men that joined up and attended the poker club the poker in this case was used to stur the fire and keep the sparks flying a lot of ideas and nation building concepts came out of that poker club I advance that the ground rules for that club be adopted for this net [any one ever hear of a book titled The Wealth of Nations] the more sparks the hotter the fire yet we must protect and advance each mans right to human dignity

What happened to the punctuation?

I have used the .416 Taylor and 30-06 combination on seven safaris. The 300 gr. bullet in the Taylor is loaded to the same ballistics as a 180 gr. in the .06. I do all of my own handloads and chronographed the above.
The Taylor has worked marvelous on buff as well as several species of plainsgame. If you handload I will be glad to provide you with the recipe.
Tim FarrenFarren Global Adventures.

I have been using a 416 Taylor for more than 15 years now, great cartridge!!!Nice lightweight rifle, making those long walks much easier!! I use it mainly for my Giant Eland hunting in CAR, when you have to go on long walks. I still use my 500 Jeffries as a back up rifle on DG, but my 416 Taylor is still on of my favourites!!!

Andre Roux