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Originally posted by fujotupu:
[QUOTE]Fujo, thanks for bringing me to my senses! What the heck was I thinking! If a safari operator charges me an extra $20 per day (the equivalent of 2 rounds of Federal .470 Nitro Express - after taxes) to fund anti-poaching initiatives, then I will be forced to sell my custom built .470 Nitro Express double rifle so that I can continue to pursue dangerous game hunting in either Tanzania or Zimbabwe!

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Some operators quit offering ele hunts from their blocks long ago...recognizing the severity of the problem.

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Originally posted by fujotupu:

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Some operators quit offering ele hunts from their blocks long ago...recognizing the severity of the problem.

Lane:

They probably stopped offering ele hunts because they did not have any shootable ones to offer.

Poaching has been ongoing for many years, mostly containable, but has escalated to unprecedented proportions over the past several years for obvious and known reasons that are beyond the outfitter's control and regardless of his commitments to providing anti-poaching patrol units.

I might add that TZ has been the only country which has applied regulations on what could be defined as a "huntable" elephant; this regulation was based on: either the length or weight of a single tusk; whichever met the minimum requirements.

Most everywhere else we see or hear of elephants getting whacked as: PAC, ration, tuskless, non-exportable, etc. of which none of these criteria apply or have ever applied to TZ.

Suggesting the introduction of an age formula (40+) to qualify an elephant as being a shootable specimen has nothing to do with the current problem as poachers are certainly not going to respect your theory.

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Originally posted by shakari:
Guys

I truly hate to say this but if the USF&WS can defy the US courts with regard to the actions by John Jackson & Conservation Force on the Moz elephant product ban for a good number of years, they're gonna do exactly the same thing with this ban....... and what's more I reckon there's a bloody good chance they'll do the same for lion & rhino in the near(ish) future.

The situation is made worse by the fact that USF&WS do have a grain of truth in their argument & they're using that grain to meddle in something they have no right to meddle in. (Meddling is the job of CITES! )

40 odd years ago, Tz was producing (occasional)elephants of around 140 lbs & it's a helluva long time since that happened & as Fujo so quite rightly says, the country has suffered massive & ever increasing poaching whilst the Govt sit back & do sweet FA about it.

In the case of Zim. The land seizures (which are activated by Govt) have resulted in a free for all that only stops when the game is finished.

I agree completely with the arguments that this ban will do more harm than good but it's very plain to see USF&WS are more interested in playing politics than in conservation & have been that way for decades.

I honestly don't think there's a hope in hell this will change at least until you get a change of Govt & very possibly, not even then! Or at least, not immediately.

& before anyone asks. No. I don't have any of the answers.

Hope I'm wrong though & I wish you blokes all the luck in the world with it!

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I am just not one for going down with out a battle.

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Originally posted by fujotupu:

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I am just not one for going down with out a battle.

Then please don't wage war against the outfitters, most of whom have been in the business longer than you have been hunting or began dreaming of going to Africa.

Sometimes you forget that the same outfitters you are lambasting have exhausted their efforts and a lot of their hard-earned finances in trying to set "things" right - remember that after all, it is their and the future of their next of kin which is at stake.

Someone I (and you) know, spends around $60/70K a year on anti-poaching activities. Just imagine how far a contribution equivalent of 2 x 470 rounds per day is going to get you.

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Originally posted by Saeed:
How about those who feel outfitters should fight poaching give some money towards that effort?

I bet no outfitter you hunt with will refuse some extra cash to help for the anti-poaching they do.

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But there is another old saying that goes...1 or 2 bad apples spoils the whole basket sometimes. coffee