quote:

ELEPHANT - This season I have only hunted one tuskless – so most of my time has been around bulls and purposefully avoiding cows and I have had no charges at all from elephant .

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Could you condense this all down to 25 words or less?

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ELEPHANT - This season I have only hunted one tuskless – so most of my time has been around bulls and purposefully avoiding cows and I have had no charges at all from elephant .

Oh, come on. What, no charges, no shooting of the client's elephant? Or was there a ele or two that fell to the PH's gun?

How shall this be controversial in the least if there is no dinging of a client's animal or dinging a client or dinging of a PH?

Come on, we have to have something to work with.

Snoozer.



(Glad you made it out alive again).

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Originally posted by ddrhook:
Ivan,
You must be a glutton for abuse to post such a in depth no BS informative posting here. LET the arm chair cowboys start the dissection now

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LION- early this year in march in the valley I followed a wounded lion into some very very thick tall grass – he growled and came when I was about ten yards from him , - it’s the first lion charge I have had in many many years – no way round it thick bush , wounded lion the only option was to go in , I took no trackers or clients as I knew there would be a charge and the client was quite happy with that decision.

quote:

How does a Ph want his client to react in a charge ?
I have several concerns when following a wounded animal with potential for a charge – in order these are
1/avoid being shot or having a tracker shot by the client .
the client will likely in thick bush be behind me and one tracker , sometimes two -with a loaded gun- when things get crazy – and that happens fast and never when planned – all kinds of things can happen – you never know what direction the animal will come from – you never know how close the charge will begin from – everyone is prepared for the worst and so potential to be jumpy is high . to try and avoid this I stop very frequently , explain what I think is going on to the client reassure him and keep him fully up to speed-I explain and reiterate my expectations to the client constantly – repeating things like – “safety on” – “look in the shadows”-“watch your footsteps “ etc this has a calming effect. A lot of clients have never been in a situation like that before and don’t know themselves how they will react

quote:

Originally posted by ivan carter:

People , well i type on my plane on the way home , managed to browse teh forum a little in J-berg airport -just home after a few more weeks hunting – all went well and took some nice elephant as well as a nice croc , hippo and a few buff –

Seems like there is a quite a lot of recent discussion on backing up and also charges – heres the Ph perspective –

From the phs perspective the client who understands his own limitations and physical capabilities makes our job a lot easier- we are trained and tested in tight situations and know how to deal with them and sometimes it’s a lot easier to deal with if one doesn’t have to think about where the client is and is he safe and will he shoot me !!!!

Charges
I firmly believe that every mock charge has the potential to change to a real charge if its not treated right – what is a real charge anyway – it’s a charge where the animal kills someone or has to be killed – apart from elephant cows and the odd buffalo incident most dangerous game does not charge unprovoked – an elephant bull may look at you shake his head and take a few steps towards you but full charges are usually only when wounded – cows are a different story .lions and leopards usually only charge when wounded – maybe not from hunting , could be from a fight etc – you never know what happened to an animal in the last 24 hours .

ELEPHANT - This season I have only hunted one tuskless – so most of my time has been around bulls and purposefully avoiding cows and I have had no charges at all from elephant .

BUFFALO- I have had one buffalo cow charge , she had been hit in the back leg and after about two hours of circling round and round in the jesse we bumped her and she came in (understandably)- this is the first buffalo charge I have had in several years –

LION- early this year in march in the valley I followed a wounded lion into some very very thick tall grass – he growled and came when I was about ten yards from him , - it’s the first lion charge I have had in many many years – no way round it thick bush , wounded lion the only option was to go in , I took no trackers or clients as I knew there would be a charge and the client was quite happy with that decision.

How does a Ph want his client to react in a charge ?
I have several concerns when following a wounded animal with potential for a charge – in order these are
1/avoid being shot or having a tracker shot by the client .
the client will likely in thick bush be behind me and one tracker , sometimes two -with a loaded gun- when things get crazy – and that happens fast and never when planned – all kinds of things can happen – you never know what direction the animal will come from – you never know how close the charge will begin from – everyone is prepared for the worst and so potential to be jumpy is high . to try and avoid this I stop very frequently , explain what I think is going on to the client reassure him and keep him fully up to speed-I explain and reiterate my expectations to the client constantly – repeating things like – “safety on” – “look in the shadows”-“watch your footsteps “ etc this has a calming effect. A lot of clients have never been in a situation like that before and don’t know themselves how they will react

2/keep everyone safe .
by keeping everyone very close together and giving short clear instructions there is less chance of the animal getting someone or having someone shot – in this instance what I really like is a guy who doesn’t try and second guess the decision – does what he is told when he is told and stays one pace behind me .

3/let the client finish his own animal
this is I believe the hardest thing – obviously a guy wants to finish his own animal in most cases – as the Ph you have to judge how fast your particular client is – if the charge starts far enough away allowing the guy to take the first crack in the hopes he kills it and being prepared to followup with a shot if he doesn’t – in cases like leopard I have never had the luxury of this amount of time , with buffalo and elephant you often have them come from further – not always though.

4/having a guy who understands his own limitations
it takes more guts often to say you don’t want to go in with the guys – in the case that a guy is scared and unreliable I would far rather he stayed back – he at that point becomes a liability rather than a help – ego plays a big part in this and nobody wants to be seen as the guy who waited in the truck -

I could go on and on but I wont suffice to say that if an animal charges and everyone is safe when the dust settles then that’s the best possible outcome – the egos , disappointments and what – ifs are a lot easier to discuss around the fire than around the hospital bed .-

Sorry about such a long post , sitting on a plane for 17 hours will do that to you !!!!

quote:

the lion charge was pretty dramatic and will be on an episode soon -

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Originally posted by Michael Robinson:

quote:

Originally posted by ivan carter:

People , well i type on my plane on the way home , managed to browse teh forum a little in J-berg airport -just home after a few more weeks hunting – all went well and took some nice elephant as well as a nice croc , hippo and a few buff –

Seems like there is a quite a lot of recent discussion on backing up and also charges – heres the Ph perspective –

From the phs perspective the client who understands his own limitations and physical capabilities makes our job a lot easier- we are trained and tested in tight situations and know how to deal with them and sometimes it’s a lot easier to deal with if one doesn’t have to think about where the client is and is he safe and will he shoot me !!!!

Charges
I firmly believe that every mock charge has the potential to change to a real charge if its not treated right – what is a real charge anyway – it’s a charge where the animal kills someone or has to be killed – apart from elephant cows and the odd buffalo incident most dangerous game does not charge unprovoked – an elephant bull may look at you shake his head and take a few steps towards you but full charges are usually only when wounded – cows are a different story .lions and leopards usually only charge when wounded – maybe not from hunting , could be from a fight etc – you never know what happened to an animal in the last 24 hours .

ELEPHANT - This season I have only hunted one tuskless – so most of my time has been around bulls and purposefully avoiding cows and I have had no charges at all from elephant .

BUFFALO- I have had one buffalo cow charge , she had been hit in the back leg and after about two hours of circling round and round in the jesse we bumped her and she came in (understandably)- this is the first buffalo charge I have had in several years –

LION- early this year in march in the valley I followed a wounded lion into some very very thick tall grass – he growled and came when I was about ten yards from him , - it’s the first lion charge I have had in many many years – no way round it thick bush , wounded lion the only option was to go in , I took no trackers or clients as I knew there would be a charge and the client was quite happy with that decision.

How does a Ph want his client to react in a charge ?
I have several concerns when following a wounded animal with potential for a charge – in order these are
1/avoid being shot or having a tracker shot by the client .
the client will likely in thick bush be behind me and one tracker , sometimes two -with a loaded gun- when things get crazy – and that happens fast and never when planned – all kinds of things can happen – you never know what direction the animal will come from – you never know how close the charge will begin from – everyone is prepared for the worst and so potential to be jumpy is high . to try and avoid this I stop very frequently , explain what I think is going on to the client reassure him and keep him fully up to speed-I explain and reiterate my expectations to the client constantly – repeating things like – “safety on” – “look in the shadows”-“watch your footsteps “ etc this has a calming effect. A lot of clients have never been in a situation like that before and don’t know themselves how they will react

2/keep everyone safe .
by keeping everyone very close together and giving short clear instructions there is less chance of the animal getting someone or having someone shot – in this instance what I really like is a guy who doesn’t try and second guess the decision – does what he is told when he is told and stays one pace behind me .

3/let the client finish his own animal
this is I believe the hardest thing – obviously a guy wants to finish his own animal in most cases – as the Ph you have to judge how fast your particular client is – if the charge starts far enough away allowing the guy to take the first crack in the hopes he kills it and being prepared to followup with a shot if he doesn’t – in cases like leopard I have never had the luxury of this amount of time , with buffalo and elephant you often have them come from further – not always though.

4/having a guy who understands his own limitations
it takes more guts often to say you don’t want to go in with the guys – in the case that a guy is scared and unreliable I would far rather he stayed back – he at that point becomes a liability rather than a help – ego plays a big part in this and nobody wants to be seen as the guy who waited in the truck -

I could go on and on but I wont suffice to say that if an animal charges and everyone is safe when the dust settles then that’s the best possible outcome – the egos , disappointments and what – ifs are a lot easier to discuss around the fire than around the hospital bed .-

Sorry about such a long post , sitting on a plane for 17 hours will do that to you !!!!

Ivan,

I'm glad you're on the way back home, safe and sound, after another season of ushering egotistical incompetents around the bush in pursuit of dangerous game.

And thanks for taking the time to explain to us in such detail what a miserable and difficult job you have.

You went easy on us, however. You didn't even start by saying that most client hunters can't shoot worth a damn!

Seriously, I feel your pain.

No one should have to worry as much about getting shot from behind by his client than getting gored, stomped, chewed or clawed by the dangerous game they are hunting.

It can't be easy to allow a guy who can't be trusted to shoot straight to follow you around with a loaded rifle.

If I were you, I would change your soothing mantra of "safety on, look in the shadows and watch your footsteps" to a simpler one: "GET IN THE DAMNED TRUCK!"

I would not have the patience, or the stomach, to spend that much time baby-sitting!

Hah! No wonder that what you really like is a guy who does what he is told when he is told and stays one pace behind you!

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Was that the charge in the footage shown at DSC club meeting?

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Originally posted by ivan carter:

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Was that the charge in the footage shown at DSC club meeting?

yes lane thats right

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Interesting, your rule #1 was echoed by another famous cat PH, Wayne Grant. He would much rather get scratched by a leopard than be shot by a client.