Hello all!
I am an "african hunter wannabe" just into fixing up my first bigbore and dreaming of turning it into a DGR for my maybe, someday africa hunt. I read everything you guys post and understand a lot of it but somethings are not clear and I think it is unwise to take advice if I don't understand the reason behind it so here goes:
My gun is a BRNO 602 with the backwards safety. I am told that this safety is a bad idea because it functions opposite of most other guns and in the heat of the moment I might get it wrong. Can someone paint me a picture of a DG hunt when I quickly and unexpectedly need to get the gun from safe to fire without me having foreseen it? My experience as a soldier is that when I think I might get jumped by something the safety (of my assaultrifle which definitly has an akward safety) is already off and finger is on the triggerguard.
Thank you!

Snowhound, don't sweat the small stuff, simply practice with you rifle till everything comes natural to you. There is no such thing as a backwards safety, yours simply works opposite to most. Since this is the rifle you will be useing for a DGR it will do what you make it do! The BRNO 602 is a fine and strong rifle, and has accounted for a trian load of dangerous game in Africa. I had a couple of 602s over the years, along with several other rifle with three or four different safeties, and never had a problem with any of them. This is no different than switching from a shotgun with a tang safety, to a Mauser with a wing safety. They are as different as night, and day, yet we seem to use them without flaw! The only thing I hate, where safeties are concerened are automatic safeties, but I don't know of a boltaction that is so fitted. They are a bane on a double rifle used for stopping large bite-backs. they reset the safety when the rifle is broken to re-load, makeing it easy to forget under a very stressfull happening!

Don't worry, just shoot your rifle, and enjoy your hunting, and you'll be fine! Good luck on your first African hunt!

I've never been on a DG hunt so take this for what its worth...there is very very few times when it would be right to walk around with the safety off like that...most would probably centre around following wounded game into cover..

I would say 99% of the time you will have the safety on...depending upon where and how your hunting its then quite feasible you will need to take the safety off in a hurry...if you muck it up, at best you might miss the fleeting chance of a good trophy at worst you or somebody in the group could be on the wrong end of something nasty...

Is it viable to alter the safety on the 602 to something a bit more conventional?

Regards

Pete

I hunt Africa with both a 375 602 and a 416 550 and also a Mdl 70 375 and have NEVER gotten the safety wrong. All 3 are differant not backward. I also have a prewar Mdl 70 that has the safety on the other side. Don't have problems with any of them so don't worry about your 602. I'm with you If I percieve danger I take the safety off I don't wait until I'm IN danger.

Whether it is something to worry about all depernds on you. If you don't have a problem with the backasswards safety, then so be it!

To beat a dead horse though I prefer the simple 2-position safety (Rem., CZ, etc.). It simple and fast, & a lot faster than the 3-position Win. type. Something to consider when the shit hits the fan.

Yeah, but the standard CZ550 safety can inadvertently get knocked into the "ON" position when working the bolt, which is not exactly an attribute when things hit the fan. The Model 70 safety conversion for the CZ does not suffer that failing.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
Snowhound, don't sweat the small stuff, simply practice with you rifle till everything comes natural to you. There is no such thing as a backwards safety, yours simply works opposite to most. Since this is the rifle you will be useing for a DGR it will do what you make it do! The BRNO 602 is a fine and strong rifle, and has accounted for a trian load of dangerous game in Africa. I had a couple of 602s over the years, along with several other rifle with three or four different safeties, and never had a problem with any of them. This is no different than switching from a shotgun with a tang safety, to a Mauser with a wing safety. They are as different as night, and day, yet we seem to use them without flaw! The only thing I hate, where safeties are concerened are automatic safeties, but I don't know of a boltaction that is so fitted. They are a bane on a double rifle used for stopping large bite-backs. they reset the safety when the rifle is broken to re-load, makeing it easy to forget under a very stressfull happening!

Don't worry, just shoot your rifle, and enjoy your hunting, and you'll be fine! Good luck on your first African hunt!

Snowhound, MacD37 hit the nail on the head. I have used Brno ZKK rifles exclusively for several years and wouldn't dream of changing the safety. Hell, I didn't know they were backwards, I thought the safetys on all other rifles were the ones that were backwards after using my first Brno.

All this BS about the safety being easy to be knocked off safe by accident is nothing but BS IMO. I have hunted all of my life and have never had a safety knocked of by accident on any rifle including a Brno. As far as operating the bolt and knocking the safety off I can't figure that one out at all, as whenever I operate the bolts on my rifles, I already have the safetys off! If a safety can be knocked off of a Brno, than it can be knocked off of any other brand of rifle just as easly! In fact, the safetys on my Brno's are more positive than the safetys I have had on any of the other brands of rifles I have owned.

I seen guys who couldn't get there safety off there Remington. Shoot, Shoot, and Shoot somemore, practice taking the safety off quickly before you shoot at the range, such as if an animal jumped up. Practice taking the safety off when you are sitting at home watching TV. Do that till you can basically take the safety off in your sleep. You should not have any problem. All of the problems I have seen with missed shots on game has been from people not knowing there rifle.

(For those of you who are wondering about taking the safety off a remington, the guy was staring at the horns of a 6X6 bull elk and couldn't figure out why his rifle wasn't firing. By the time he realized most guns have a "safety" the bull walked off.)

quote:

Originally posted by sierrabravo45:
(For those of you who are wondering about taking the safety off a remington, the guy was staring at the horns of a 6X6 bull elk and couldn't figure out why his rifle wasn't firing. By the time he realized most guns have a "safety" the bull walked off.)

The above is the exact reason I will not have an auto-safety on a double rifle! If you think this guy was flustered and forgot his safety, while looking at a ELK, just think how well he would have done with a 500 lb lion coming at him, makeing 20 foot jumps!

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Whether it is something to worry about all depernds on you. If you don't have a problem with the backasswards safety, then so be it!

To beat a dead horse though I prefer the simple 2-position safety (Rem., CZ, etc.). It simple and fast, & a lot faster than the 3-position Win. type. Something to consider when the shit hits the fan.

I agree with Will regarding a 2 position saefty. I had a 2 position Win. type safety installed on my Mauser for my elephant hunt this year, and couldn't have been happier. It's either ON or OFF.

No inbetween, and no possibility for any mistakes. There are those who say the middle position on a Win type safety makes it "safer" for unloading etc. but I've never seen this as a problem with other 2 position safetys on other weapons, be they shotguns while hunting birds, or full-auto weapons in the military. Why would a hunting rifle be any differant?

So I'll stick to 2 position safetys on guns for DG.

I like a safety simple and straight forward...But practice and knowing what one is doing makes more sense...


Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Mauser Rifle:
All this BS about the safety being easy to be knocked off safe by accident is nothing but BS IMO.

Expand your knowledge, my friend. It does not happen on M98 or M70 safeties, but the CZ550 and the Interarms slide safety can be knocked ON when working the bolt.

I like the M-70 safety best of all, I think the middle position adds another level of safety unequaled by others. jorge

jorge

Even though I owned a complete collection of pre-64 Model 70's in the late 60's and early 70's, I fail to see why the Mod. 70 safety is considered to be so great.

As I stated above, I have never had a problem with a safety being accidentally knocked off on any rifle. But with the Mod. 70 safety and it's location, to me it would be one of the easiest safetys of all to be accidentaly moved or knocked off safe. Just by virtue of it's location and how far it sticks out, it is obivious that it can be moved the easiest of all safetys.

Guess there must be a reason as to why it's the most copied safety in the world. Even most Mausers are converted from that ungainly "over the top" lever to the Model 70. But to each his own. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Guess there must be a reason as to why it's the most copied safety in the world. Even most Mausers are converted from that ungainly "over the top" lever to the Model 70. But to each his own. jorge

jorge

I think if you would take a realistic look at the rifles used through out the world and even just the rifles used in the USA, you would see how far fetched your statement really is as to being "the most copied safety in the world. Even most Mausers are converted from that ungainly over the top lever to the Model 70".

Do you really believe that the majority of people owning rifles convert the safety on their rifle to a Mod. 70 type? Even the majority of Mausers that have a safety conversion so that a scope can be mounted do not convert to a 3 position Mod.70 type safety. I would like to see the printed facts from the survey that was taken to prove your statement, and would like to know who onducted this survey.

In all honesty jorge, it is MY OPINION that you have been up in the clouds too long and are oxygen deprived by some of the statements you make.

I believe that each and every one of us likes to think that the decesions we make concerning the firearms we use and the changes we make on these firearms is the best and most popular, but in all reality it is only what we ourselves and some others feel is the best. What is best for you or for me and everyone else is not always the same. It is only our opinion on most matters, just like your statement.

Have a nice day!

Mauser' Personal attacks notwithsatnding, I don't have the time nor the inclination to present a case as if I were in a court of law. Don't put words in my mouth either please. I said MOST and not all, (there are a few oxygen deprived or otherwise obtuse, that don't let facts get in the way of their opinions) people convert Mauser rifles to Model 70 safeties and not ALL rifles. Why? becasue a lot of them already use the system. Take a look at Ruger, Dakota, Echols, Hill. Sisk,Montana I'm pretty certain all have the three pos safety, in fact a lot of even 700 actions get the 70 upgrade. Suffice to say that a lot riflemakers that *I* have seen advertise, even on non CRF rifles, adapt their products to the Model 70 safety.

Moreover, the original Mauser safety is very cumbersome to use on a scoped rifle. To be fair, the easiest safety to use is the one on doubles that is right on the tang, but for bolts, the Model 70 is much more practical than the UNGAINLY standard Mauser safety. You are right in one sense that some of this is *my* opinion just like it is yours, only in this case my opinion is closer to the facts than yours. Look, even if I were to present reams of data from US custom riflemakers that use Mauser type actions, you are not going to change your mind nor am I. However, if you want to continue using the insult strategy to eschew my opinion, go right ahead, this place is replete with internet machismo. jorge

Come on Jorge, and Mauser, both you are wrong, only "MY" opinion is the correct one!

Mac: I accept your premise!jorge

I'm going to agree with Jorge here.

I've owned just about every sort of bolt-gun you can imagine over the last thirty years, and as far as I'm concerned, the Model 70 safety is unexcelled from any standpoint of consideration. It's a truly SAFE safety that does not block the trigger, but rather cams back the firing pin, plus in the full-safe position properly locks-down the bolt. I have also found it to be the least likely safety of them all to get "knocked-off", and I have also long found the middle safety position to be extremely useful, and an invaluable aid in safely loading and unloading the chamber. Most of the custom safety modifications that get applied to Mausers, etc. are attempts at replicating the Model 70 safety, but almost without exception, every one of this is functionally inferior.

The only people I know who don't like the Model 70 safety are those who are unfamiliar with it from an operation standpoint (inexperienced gun handlers) and those who own specific Model 70 rifles that have trigger-safety systems that are improperly adjusted and timed.

In my opinion, the CZ is a rather crude rifle, and its operation is distinctly inferior to the M70, including the safety system..........

AD

Thank you all for your replies!
I posted this question in the african hunting forum rather than the bigbore forum to try and avoid stirring upp to many feelings but I guess it's the same people who post on both forums .
I will follow your advice to shoot, shoot and practice with the gun and also hunt some moose with it and if I ever notice the saftey not completely "safe" then I will strongly consider changing it to a 3-position.
Thanks again!