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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Re: Lion caliber?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| One of Us |
Hi Nick Don't compare Kynock .404 to .416 Rigby! Modern RWS and Norma .404 drives a 400grn bullet at 2320fps from my H&H (22" barrel) and 2360fps from the Cogswell and Harrisons 26" barrel. The salient point of Taylors comment should have read - use a bullet with an impact velocity of over 2250fps to get maximum milage out of hydrostatic shock to which lion are very vulnernable. A .416 does indeed crumple a lion better than a .470 or .458. I actually prefer a .375 to a .458 for lion anyday. For the best written advice on lion I have ever read, check out - the Hunter is Death, by T.V. Bulpin. It is the story of George Rushby who was probably the greatest "problem" lion hunter in Tanzania/Kenya. The only other person who comes close is "yank" Allen, from Nuanetsi, but appart from a few short articles on Yank by Brian Marsh I have never seen much written about him. George Rushby traded in his .470 for a 9,3x74 for use on lion as he found the 9,3 just as effective! | ||
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Rushby wanted his 9.3 double because it was a double and his .404 wasn't. But he sold it and then lamented that he couldn't buy it back. One can always find somebody that killed a thousand lions with a .22 LR. And Rushby hunting maneaters is not the same either. So what if he might have wounded a few? He wasn't paying trophy fees! Poison and traps worked better than his 9.3  | |||
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| Moderator |
The Zim farmer, slamming on the brakes, to jump out and pop off the occasional meat buffalo or problem lion with 220 roundnoses from his '06 is not comparable to the fairchase hunting of these animals, afoot, in the middle of nowhere. In what lion hunting needs, the .375 is a damn good place to start, with the larger calibers being that much better, IMHO. But take it from someone whose words should not be taken lightly: In regard to the .416 Rigby ... "Owing to its higher velocity, its trajectory curve is somewhat flatter than that of the .404, when the latter is firing the standard 400 grain bullet, whilst it is definitely a more powerful weapon. With solid bullets, on heavy animals such as elephant, rhino and buffalo, this additional power is quite apparent but is not so obvious as when soft-nosed bullets are being used on say, lion, particularly when it is a case of stopping a charge: the .404 will stop him all right, but will seldom crumple him quite so completely as will the .416." - John "Pondoro" Taylor | |||
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Quote: I wasn't ... nor was Taylor, in his day. You see the point. Quality softpoints of large caliber at good velocity ... | |||
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The 375 is known as the most common lion caliber. Quite adequate. Once you have been among them you will want to carry a bigger gun. If I get a vote, and at least for my hunting, I do. I will use my 416 Rigby against DG and use my 375 for everything else. Good hunting. "D" | |||
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| one of us |
Smallest I have used on lion is .375 H&H, 300 grains. If I was to do it all over again I think I would stick with the .416 Rigby. Or if I was taking a .458 Win. or Lott I would be tempted to use the 450 grain Swift. Probably the quickest kill I made on a lion was with a .378 Wea., 300 grain solids on the open plains of East Africa @ about 100 yds., no cover and no baits. Other game to be hunted enters into the decision of what to take and whether or not another rifle goes along for the ride. Back in antiquity I normally took 3 rifles, that made it easier, but no more. For zebra smallest would be the .280 Rem. It did okay, but there are a lot more desireables in IMO. For the buff, smallest used would .375, but I prefer .416 Rigby or bigger diameter. I am sure .404 is fine | |||
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I'm glad to see some of you all support using a 378 on lion as that's what i'm taking to Zambia in 2006 for lion. I just put on a leopold quick release VX-III 1.75-6x32mm Heavy Duplex. The scope seems to be holding up ok..so far! You all all are a wealth of info..Thanks | |||
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Quote: However, Taylor made this comment when 404s were loaded only to 2150fps. | |||
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Good observations Mac, but sometimes the lion (or buffalo or elephant) doesn't turn-tail after the first shot. The "follow-up" might be a split second after the first shot, and one must be prepared with the right rifle to finish the job. I'd gladly accept a free safari to use a 30-06 to shoot a lion over bait, but I'd decline the offer if the hunt was tracking a lion while carrying a 30-06. I know a PH who, in his younger days, killed many lions using a 318 or a 303. He readily admits he's lucky to have made it out of his 20's. | |||
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| One of Us |
Hi John For realistic value in Tanzania please see my post re a lion hunt with Don Bowers for US$25k all in on End of season hunts for sale a few days back. | |||
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