In this world of splendid new bullets, bondeds etc. what will you use on buffalo..??

First round a Swift etc. and then the rest of the magazine solids..OR more softs..?

Is it still strictly solids on ele or does it make sense with a premium soft as the first round for a lung/heart shot..and then solids for follow up shots..?

What would you choose in a double..?

Buffalo.
I like the Barnes TSX as the first barrel, and then
Solids following

Elephant.
Solids only!!! Woodleigh or Barnes and CEB in mono metals.
Definitely not a controlled expansion bullet at all.

Cheers

Nick

I generally use Swift A Frames for buff.

I always use solids for elephants. However, I have done some testing on dead elephants with the Swift A Frame. I am 100% confident that I could kill elephants with the A Frames.

A certain PH I know well brained a cow elephant out the window of the truck with a 44 magnum pistol. I am not sure what bullets he had. My point is that if he can do that with a pistol, I am extremely confident in the A frames out of a big bore.

ELEPHANT >>> NOTHING BUT SOLIDS!!!

BUFFALO >>> Quality soft point (first shot) and Solids for all the rest.

In my double I use only Federal "Sledgehammer" Solids....and "Bearclaw" Soft points. Fantastic bullets.

I suggest only solids on elephant.

Buffalo I think any premium bullet will work fine.

I tend to like mono metal bullets like the Barnes X, GS Custom and our own Walterhogs.

Side brain shot on a elephant I am sure these bullets will work.

Front brain shot I would not chance.

I dont't think it's smart to have anything but a solid in your chamber anywhere near ele.
As for what is best on buff that is a really tough question,IMO.It depends on what chambering,distance,bullet weight,quartering or angle shots,etc...
One thing is for sure and that is if you are a good shot and place your bullet carefully a solid will always work where a soft -any soft, might not.

Hi. As someone who has zero experience in this, I was wondering:
Why are solids recommended for follow-up shots on buffalo?

Thank you.

quote:

Originally posted by Sevastopol:
Hi. As someone who has zero experience in this, I was wondering:
Why are solids recommended for follow-up shots on buffalo?

Thank you.

That is because you are rushing the second shot and you cannot be sure of where it will strike so the bullet has to be able to penetrate and reach the vitals from all angles .

The Canadian Orifice At Delphi has spoken..

All softs on Buff ( Barnes X )

All softs on Elephant.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
All softs on Buff ( Barnes X )

All softs on Elephant.

what a joke-stop smoking the hash

Buffalo: TSX or A-Frames (no need for solids).

Elephant: A preference for solids on frontal.

TSX/A-Frames a great performer for side-on body shots.

Will also produce the desired effect on the departing end should it be in "high tailing" mode.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Sevastopol:
Hi. As someone who has zero experience in this, I was wondering:
Why are solids recommended for follow-up shots on buffalo?

Thank you.

That is because you are rushing the second shot and you cannot be sure of where it will strike so the bullet has to be able to penetrate and reach the vitals from all angles .

Makes sense.

Thank you.

Just back in From Zim and had a great hunt with a fine group of hunters with CMS. Shot two buff and a total of eight bulls were taken on the hunt.

I load two softs then two solids most of the time in my bolt rifles. Sometimes you encounter bulls in herds and a solid will pass through and could hit another buffalo in the ensuing melee as they move off. Two solids are then up next if a quick walk up is necessary, but more then likely you will have time to top off the magazine with softs or solids at the PH's discretion.

I shot Hornady DGX bullets in my .416 Rigby on this safari and had a one shot kill on the first bull and the second dropped within a couple of steps of the first shot and received a final finisher on the approach.

I agree with Saeed on premium softs. I shoot the bullet in my rifles that shoot the best so sometimes Swifts, sometimes Barnes and sometimes Hornady. I have shot buff with the .416 Rigby, .416 Remington, .404 Jeffery, .375 H&H, .375 Ruger and the 9.3x62. Pick a good bullet that shoots well and feeds better in your rifle and then have fun.

Always solids for elephant!

I killed an adult elephant with a single brain shot using a 300 gr. Failsafe fired from a 375 H&H Ackley Improved at 2875 fps. It dropped dead in its tracks and never twitched.

The failsafe is essentially identical to the TSX, TTSX, or GSV-HV. The nose saves off leaving a flat-nosed solid to penetrate deep.

The PH, I was hunting with, stated that the TSX was adequate for elephant.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Sevastopol:
Hi. As someone who has zero experience in this, I was wondering:
Why are solids recommended for follow-up shots on buffalo?

Thank you.

That is because you are rushing the second shot and you cannot be sure of where it will strike so the bullet has to be able to penetrate and reach the vitals from all angles .

You should specify it being a cow when you say "when not sure where it will strike"

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
All softs on Buff ( Barnes X )

All softs on Elephant.

what a joke-stop smoking the hash

Did your Mother have any children that lived?

This is based on your overwhelming experience of shooting COW buffalo and......remind me.....how many Elephant?


.


.

I have shot 3 elephant ,all using Woodleigh solids. I shot one Buffalo and it was with a single 270gr Nosler Partition in a 375H&H.

quote:

Originally posted by bwanamrm:
Just back in From Zim and had a great hunt with a fine group of hunters with CMS. Shot two buff and a total of eight bulls were taken on the hunt.

I load two softs then two solids most of the time in my bolt rifles. Sometimes you encounter bulls in herds and a solid will pass through and could hit another buffalo in the ensuing melee as they move off. Two solids are then up next if a quick walk up is necessary, but more then likely you will have time to top off the magazine with softs or solids at the PH's discretion.

I shot Hornady DGX bullets in my .416 Rigby on this safari and had a one shot kill on the first bull and the second dropped within a couple of steps of the first shot and received a final finisher on the approach.

I agree with Saeed on premium softs. I shoot the bullet in my rifles that shoot the best so sometimes Swifts, sometimes Barnes and sometimes Hornady. I have shot buff with the .416 Rigby, .416 Remington, .404 Jeffery, .375 H&H, .375 Ruger and the 9.3x62. Pick a good bullet that shoots well and feeds better in your rifle and then have fun.

Always solids for elephant!

+1 2 softs, followed by 2 solids for buff. solids only for elephants

JTex,

We need to get together for lunch. That was just too funny.

77 days to go for my first Safari.

I will be taking my 416 Rigby with CEB Safari raptors (HP) 325 gr & Solids 350 gr.

I will also take some Barnes Tsx 350 gr which shoot to same POA. These will be used for longer shots on buffalo if required and on PG.

If I do decide on a tuskless elephant, I'll just use the solids.

In the last 20 years and over 800 buff only soft for buff they kill much better and quicker in our concession no solids permitted for buff!

On elephant solids but I am sure a mono soft would work on side brain and body shots.



Hope that helps

Can I ask what speed recommended for a 600 grain bullet caliber 50 for buffalo to achieve the best effect

quote:

Originally posted by sth:
Can I ask what speed recommended for a 600 grain bullet caliber 50 for buffalo to achieve the best effect

I wouldn't worry too much about speed - just go for standard factory ammo.

quote:

only soft for buff they kill much better and quicker

Winchester Silver Tips as well?

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

only soft for buff they kill much better and quicker

Winchester Silver Tips as well?

Didn't now they still make that scrap?

We talking any decent soft but hornady 400grains RN soft works well if you don't go over 2250fps in the 416.

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
The Canadian Orifice At Delphi has spoken..

Which orifice?

quote:

Originally posted by bwanamrm:

I load two softs then two solids most of the time in my bolt rifles. Sometimes you encounter bulls in herds and a solid will pass through and could hit another buffalo in the ensuing melee as they move off. Two solids are then up next if a quick walk up is necessary, but more then likely you will have time to top off the magazine with softs or solids at the PH's discretion.

I shot Hornady DGX bullets in my .416 Rigby on this safari and had a one shot kill on the first bull and the second dropped within a couple of steps of the first shot and received a final finisher on the approach.

I agree with Saeed on premium softs. I shoot the bullet in my rifles that shoot the best so sometimes Swifts, sometimes Barnes and sometimes Hornady. I have shot buff with the .416 Rigby, .416 Remington, .404 Jeffery, .375 H&H, .375 Ruger and the 9.3x62. Pick a good bullet that shoots well and feeds better in your rifle and then have fun.

Always solids for elephant!

IMO, that is a perfect loading for buffalo in a bolt rifle, for the reasons DWANAMRM states. All solids for elephant goes without saying!

In my doubles for Buffalo I normally load a soft in the right barrel, and a solid in the left barrel. However if encountering a mixed herd, I will usually pull the solid and replace it with a soft, and back again if we encounter bulls away from the herd.

......................................................................

When I started out buffalo hunting I only used solids as my PH requested. After using some of the modern tough softs, I see no need to ever load a solid for buff. Even in a charge situation almost any soft has enough penetration to reach the brain and the soft simply increases your chances of hitting it.

For elephant it is only solids. They work just as well as softs on body shots since eles are so easy to kill with that shot. Some softs might be able to reach the brain on a side shot but in my experience, elephants have a nasty habit of turning to face you just as you line up for that side on shot. I just don't trust ant soft for a frontal shot but there are few solids that I wouldn't trust.

465H&H

quote:

In this world of splendid new bullets, bondeds etc. what will you use on buffalo..??

First round a Swift etc. and then the rest of the magazine solids..OR more softs..?

quote:

Why are solids recommended for follow-up shots on buffalo?

Many of you don't really see a need for solids any longer, with the current state of our bullet tech being so good with softs or trauma inflicting bullets. I suppose this would be correct if one only intends to fire one round and stop at that point, with that in mind, why even have a second shot available, just use a single shot rifle?

I ask, "What is the purpose of a second shot on buffalo, if in fact you choose to go that route?"....................

For me, the second, third or more is to put that animal down as quickly as possible. To Pay the Insurance up. To make sure you do not loose this animal, as it is Dangerous Game, once you open up this dance, it is your responsibility to FINISH it! To not do so could possibly result in setting the conditions for a dangerous situation for yourself, others in your party, or other individuals that are not part of the equation down the road. You started this, you must finish it with extreme prejudice........

Of course that first shot is of utmost importance, good bullet, good shot placement on the first round will ensure you solve the issue quickly and decisively, this goes without saying, or should. But guys, things don't always go as planned on that first shot, the first shot is not always perfect. There are many things that can happen to that first shot. If you are like me, you might not have seen exactly what you thought you were seeing, and placement might not be as good as you thought? Maybe there was a twig, or stick along the bullets path that you did not see? Maybe your choice of bullet was not as good as it should have been? There are literally HUNDREDS of these "Maybes" that can occur in the field. After that first shot, and ole buff bucks up and runs you will not know if anything happened until the dance is finished. Now when buff takes off, which end of buff you reckon you will be looking at? Oh sure, you might get an angled shot on the second round, and many of the best of softs will make the vitals, but more times than not what I have seen is the South end of a North bound buff, and I don't know of any conventional soft points that can reliably make that trip from the south end all the way to the vitals! I said 100% Reliable!

With the invent of the CEB Raptors and the Expanding North Fork CPS that I have used on buffalo, I myself became a little undecided about the use of solids in this scenario. And I doubt anyone is more of a proponent for proper solids than I am. However, the last couple of years I have gone back to my original thoughts on this, and will ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS have a proper designed SOLID for backup and insurance.

Last year I hit a great running bull with the 50 B&M Alaskan lever gun. I am not a good running shot, and instead of the shoulder the 365 gr Lever Raptor hit behind the shoulder and went through both lungs. The bull took notice of the hit but continued on his way. I levered in a 405 #13 Solid and hit him again, this one completely through the stomach, and he slowed down to a slow walk and found some brush to take refuge. I finished this dance some minutes later and laced him full of holes with more solids to sort it out. However, on looking at the video that afternoon, we saw that my second shot, the 405#13 Solid through the stomach, first passed completely through a 4-5 inch diameter TREE 10 yards in front of me, and then continued on to the buffalo hitting him in the mid stomach, and damned it passed completely through the buffalo as well. The next day, we went back to the scene, found the tree, found the bulls tracks, and he was running exactly 30 yards behind the tree!!!!!!! Had that been another Raptor, or any conventional soft it would have never made that trip except by pure luck, and even then, it would not have had enough muster to do what that #13 Solid did.

If it is on its feet, I intend to shoot until it is not on its feet any longer. Second, third or more shots will not be that perfect shot that you wait on like the first shot of the dance! You will be grabbing for any piece of fur or hide that you can hit, and in many cases you will be busting through brush whether you realize it or not! After doing some stick tests, the two very best options that I have found that can buck brush good enough to pay the insurance is the CEB #13 Solid and the North Fork FPS. Many of the rest of the solids I have tested failed rather miserably in this area.

Just a week or so ago, I busted a cow buffalo at 40-45 yards. Using 500 B&M, .500 caliber 410 Raptor/450#13 Solid. The 410 Raptor at 2500 fps hit the cow on the front left point of the shoulder, traversed chest cavity completely and was found on the stomach side right side under the hide, 40 inches of total travel. Absolutely devastating, the buffalo could not run, but did turn 180 degrees, and while going down I turned a 450 gr #13 Solid at 2350 fps loose on the right shoulder. I am a "TREE KILLING BITCH", because I hit another tree, this one 8 inches in diameter. The 450 hit the tree, going completely through the tree, hit the buffalo exactly dead on the right shoulder, passed completely through to the left shoulder and exited dead straight! Another thing that really amazed me, that bullet hit the tree so hard it knocked the bark completely off of it, see below...............




In 2006 I was doing some test work with some conventional bullets in South Africa in .500 caliber. While test work had been completed, and I knew what these bullets were capable of at the velocity I was running, I decided to make sure to have some insurance in case something did not go as planned, so I backed up many shots with a solid at that time, even on plains game. Not because I thought it might turn into a dangerous situation, but because I was not willing to risk loosing an animal, wounding an animal, or having something go wrong with the bullets I was using at the time without some sort of insurance to back me up. Worst case is always to have a wounded animal, and or loose it. Behind that comes a responsibility of the shooter, again, open the dance, you must finish it, regardless of the animal. Last time and money are an issue, if I spend time looking for wounded animals, then I am loosing time in the field I could be much more productive with! Since then, even on bear hunts, I have backed with solids and found it an excellent solution, and excellent insurance against having lost or wounded animals.

In both of the instances where I shot through trees, fact of the matter is, both of my first shots would have solved the situation in the end, but I am just not going to rely on that 100%. I am going to shoot until I solve the problem, and the best thing I have found to solve my problems in nearly any scenario is a proper designed solid. I will continue to do this for all my days in the field, regardless of animal hunted...............

quote:

Is it still strictly solids on ele

Of course..... and it will remain this way...............

Michael

Woodleigh solids for both. Go with what your PH recommends, they are the ones that need to feel confident and comfortable with what you are using...
Scott

I am not the most experienced elephant hunter in the world, but in my limited sample size, I would only use solids, at least if one is thinking one might even consider a brain shot. I did brain shoot a hippo with the TSX, and it worked just fine, but the bullet did not exit the skull. Given the elephant's skull, even on cows is a lot thicker than a hippo, I am not going there... (this was with a .416 400 gr bullet at 2400.)

As to buffalo, I would be happy to hunt them with just premium softs. TSX, North Fork, Trophy Bonded, or A frames.

My first buff hunts I did use solids as back ups in herds and as first shot with Dagga boys at the PH's advice. I have since shot over a dozen, mostly with the TSX and have seen penetration into the vitals from all angles, so I feel comfortable with them for buffalo, but as we all know, most places you find buff, there are elephant around. Depending on what one sees or the cover I'm in, I will either load all TSX or a TSX and then solids after that, and top off with softs as needed.

So far, so good.

I've not shot an elephant yet.
Softs of buffalo (and grizzly)
Solids on hippo.
Woodleighs only.
Cheers,
Cal

I have used .458Win mag Hornady dgx on buffalo and dgs on elephant.
It worked

quote:

Originally posted by Caracal:
I have used .458Win mag Hornady dgx on buffalo and dgs on elephant.
It worked

I am sure if you shoot the 500gr DGX at 2150fps and you put it perfectly broadside just behind the shoulder that it will work fine.I don't know about driving it at 2300fps and putting it directly on the shoulder.

Your PH will advise you on what he prefers. I ve used second round on buff as a soft and that was the key shot. Be flexible if conditions dictate. I was asked by my PH to change out my first round soft for a solid on one buffalo for a quartering shot which anchored it and then the soft bowled him over. At Kevin Robertsons advice and experience I now have Northfork CPS cups loaded since they travel the whole length of a buff but do also have some expansion. For my Gibbs .505 I ve loaded first a Tsx 525 for accuracy, then a Woodleigh 600gr for knockdown and then two solids. I m replacing the two solids with the Northforks 535 gr CPS for my next buffalo. Don't disagree that if you are in wooded areas you may need to be flexible and use more solids. Remember wounded buffs will hide in bushes or use tree cover and then solids become more important, apart from less ideal shots.

From what I have seen on buff a solid can show a great degree of variation in its ability to penetrate a buffalo.IMO,it all depends on what resistance it encounters.

I have always used a combination of 300grn Swift A Frame and 286grn Woodleigh FMJs for a 9.3x62 and Woodleigh Softs and FMJs for the big and slow 470NE for Cape Buffalo with good results.
However, this season I will be trying the 500grn North fork Cup points for Buffalo.

Woodleigh FMJS for Ele. Again with good results

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
When I started out buffalo hunting I only used solids as my PH requested. After using some of the modern tough softs, I see no need to ever load a solid for buff. Even in a charge situation almost any soft has enough penetration to reach the brain and the soft simply increases your chances of hitting it.

For elephant it is only solids. They work just as well as softs on body shots since eles are so easy to kill with that shot. Some softs might be able to reach the brain on a side shot but in my experience, elephants have a nasty habit of turning to face you just as you line up for that side on shot. I just don't trust ant soft for a frontal shot but there are few solids that I wouldn't trust.

465H&H

Would be interested if you could elaborate 465.

Why do you say a soft will increase your chance of hitting the brain on a buffalo when I would imagine that any soft being used today on DG will be a fairly strongly constructed one as you point out. If you can't find the brain with a solid I don't see that a soft is going find it any better, what am I missing?

For elephant you say they are easy to kill with a body shot and solids work just as well as softs. Many denigrate solids as only drilling a hole straight through any animal and have minimal killing effect other than when the spine or brain is found, so what is the difference on the internals of elephants that a solid works as well as a soft.

For what it's worth I found cup and core solids from my 404 worked just fine on several Aussie buffalo at all angles, running or standing.

quote:

Originally posted by TANZ-PH:
ELEPHANT >>> NOTHING BUT SOLIDS!!!

BUFFALO >>> Quality soft point (first shot) and Solids for all the rest.

In my double I use only Federal "Sledgehammer" Solids....and "Bearclaw" Soft points. Fantastic bullets.

+1 Can't improve on perfection.