I have shot almost exclusively scoped rifles for the last several years. I am playing with a open sighted old classic rifle. What would acceptable accuracy be at 50 and 100 yards with open sights? This is a bolt gun but I guess double guns should be considered as well. Thanks

With a peep sight and practice there is no reason you cannot group 1" at 100 yards. With open sights with a large front bead on a DGR, I can easily get 2.5" at 100.

With a double at 50 yards I have been able to put 2 shots (right barrel, left barrel) 1 inch apart, but more typically I will shoot a 4 shot group into 3 inches or a little more from sandbags.

Id say 3 to 4"s at 50 is excellent off hand...6 or 8 inches is fine at 100 off hand...I can do a little better than that but I have been shooting irons off hand for 60 plus years...

It was a way of life where I grew up, that and roping goats, calves, cats and dogs was about our only source of entertainment we had, then Bill Weaver gave me a new 330 scope for my new M-70 06 and that was something...got a lot of disgusted looks and it was pretty much a joke at the time. Then someone showed me how to sight it in, then those old men quit laughing...

Alot depends on the type of sights you're using and your own eyesight. But in my case at least, it's not hard to do 2" groups with an open-sighted big bore rifle at 100 yards... Or on a good day a bit under 2" prone (we're talking hunting sights here, not target sights). In fact the other day I shocked myself shooting a 3" group at 200 yards off the bench with the 200 yard express sight leaf on my .375 H&H Ruger M77.

I like Ross Seyfried's test. Minute of grapefruit at one hundred. (Don't try to shoot at 200 with that setup though!)

D Hunter:



I just returned from a safari during which I used "classic" rifles with just iron sights. On a Black Wildebeest, I actually flipped up the 200 yard sight on my .375 Flanged Express. Much to my delight and surprise, the animal fell like pole-axed, shot through the head (it was facing me.)



Iron sights cause one to pass up a few shots, but encourage the hunter to work harder for his/her trophies. I'm an old bowhunter, using only longbows or recurves (none of the wheels and whistles for me!), so a transition to double rifles seemed natural... tradition being part of the thrill of safari, in my humble mind (Didn't J.A. Hunter put bullets up his nose, too?).



I've got some great rifles made between 1900 to 1925 or so, all with iron sights. I find it enhances my hunting experience to use them, speculate about the earlier users and even just practice to become more proficient. (On Monday I'll try to post a picture of my Mannlicher 9.5x56. It has the coolest flip-up tang peep. I can shoot 2" at 100 with it.)



And.... God forbid that you're in the high grass with an elephant/buffalo/leopard on the way to terminate your gene contributions, a good set of express sights are worth their weight in diamonds.



Here's the picture of the 1908 Mannlicher:

judge I am humbled. I guess I will go back to the loading bench and plan on getting better groups with this rifle. I am getting only about 2 inches at fifty off bench. She will have to do better than that or maybe it is just my eyes. Getting the leaf and bead and target to all be seen and lined up is fuzzier than I remember from my younger days. "D"

D,

I had to go the way of glasses for shooting...but I am shooting well with open sights and with the scope..This past year the eyes failed...But the glasses put me back where I should be..Might be the time...

Mike

For me it depends quite a bit on the specific sights. On a K98 Mauser I'm lucky to hold 3" @ 100 yds. from the bench. With the leaf sights on my Sharps I'll do 1" groups. My favorite for offhand is a lever action, and I'll hold around 2" at fifty yards with blade sights.

With my eyesight I need the heavier sights the last two provide. That, and lot's of practice. But I still don't feel comfortable enough anymore to cleanly and consistently take game much beyond 75 yds. with irons, so most of my hunting hardware is now scoped.

What is happening here is some are shooting off hand and others are shooting from a bench, and this may confuse the issue at hand...Also a peep or receiver sight is iron and probably more accurate than the shallow V for instance,maybe.

I can shoot almost as good with iron sights (peep or V) as with a scope at 100 yards off a bench, not at 200 yards..

Off hand at 100 yds I can shoot as well with irons as with a scope, probably better, again at 200 yards its a toss up with a slight advantage to the scope I think, but at 300 and beyond, the scope wins hands down..

The reason I can shoot better with irons "off hand" at up to say 150 yards is simple, the scope magnifies ones wiggle and I tend to grab at the trigger as the crosshairs float by the magnified target..I cannot see this disturbing movement with irons and I consentrate of a good clean trigger pull...trigger pull is the most important aspect of game shooting...I believe this to be true with a lot of shooters who are good iron sight off hand shots.

I agree that you must determine if it is offhand or at the bench. I like open shallow "v" or express style and am pie-plate accurate to 100 yards. I have of late been playing with more and more peep sights. My model 71 and 444 both had peeps. I changed the 444 Marlin to a 2.5 scope and left the 71 with the williams.
Sitting and or with a good rest and the peeps I am coke-can accurate and sometimes better.
When I try to get real accurate I have a vernier and globe combo with inserts for my single shots.
Frank

I see a lot of wisdom in this thread . I use scoped now mostly but still have a few with irons. I can still also be "coke can" accurate at 100 yards and maybe alittle beyond, even if I dont have my 20/10 vision anymore.

It seems strange to me that I can actually shoot v irons better than a good peep sight. Never figured why that would be so but thats the way it is for me. Anyway, any big game just short of 200 yards is still in trouble given the right shot....

These are the dimensions of an official NRA 600 yard target used for iron sighted rifles in NRA Highpower competitions:



Aiming Black (inches)

X ring 6.00

10 ring 12.00

9 ring 18.00

8 ring 24.00

7 ring 36.00



Rings in White (inches)

6 ring 48.00

5 ring 60.00



Here's the official 200 yard target, again for iron sights, but from the Standing position:



Aiming Black (inches) Rings in White (inches)

X ring 3.00

10 ring 7.00

9 ring 13.00



Rings in White (inches)

8 ring 19.00

7 ring 25.00

6 ring 31.00

5 ring 37.00



I don't guess a shooter is actually seeing a 6-inch X-ring at 600 yards, although he may hit it frequently. He shoots for the center of the 36-inch black area.



I am not a Highpower shooter, and I am aware these guys use sights that are specifically matched to black circles of a certain size and at a certain distance. Given superior equipment for the task of hitting a black circle at a known distance of 200 yards, an able competitor who probably fires 10,000 rounds practicing each year can get most of his shots in the 9 or 10 ring. That means that under perfect conditions, he usually hits at 200 yards within 6.5 inches of where he's aiming.



I am pretty sure I can't reliably hit an imaginary 13" circle on the side of a deer at 200 yards using express sights or hunting rifle type peep sights. I'd be patting myself on the back if I shot all 9's and 10's with a scope.



H. C.

Shooting targets at exact known range is a whole nuther world from shooting game at guesstimated distances, and especially with irons, even a peep much less an express sight...

I sight in my irons at about 2" high at 100 that puts me on at about 175 or 200 depending on caliber and 3 to 5 inces low at 300 and way low at 400 yards..

I hold center aligned with the foreleg, on all animals as thats about all you can see as a matter of fact with an express sight or peep sight...If I shoot too low he is too far away, if I shoot high then I probably need my a$$ kicked..

If I miss an animal, its a 99% sure thing that I shot high...even with a scope...I think that applies to most everyone.