I'm headed to Tanzania for a 10 day buff hunt with my little brother in 09' (2 buff for each of us). Little brother being 6' 225 lbs of former football player that could bench press a Buick on a bad day (damn shame not to be able to whip your younger siblings like you could when you were a kid)... point being that recoil shouldn't be an issue for him. He, like me, has experience hunting hogs, deer, and birds, so he knows how to shoot and shoot well, but he'll need practice with whatever I get him.

This will be a first trip to Africa for both of us.

After college, I became enamored with big game hunting and big bore rifles. In fact, in the months leading up to my wedding, I went on a gun hunting rampage purchasing anything that I thought I might need for the next 50 years of my life. I was primarily concerned with that fact that after I got married, it wouldn't be just "my" decision when it came to buying guns. This was surely one of the better ideas I've had in a while, and I never hesitate to recommend the same thing to my friends that are headed toward engaging in a community property partnership (or so it is in the state of Texas)/ marriage. But, that's neither here nor there.

Getting to the point, I plan on taking a Heym 450/400 and a 9.3x64 for plains game. I was also going to bring a 416 remy for my brother. While considering what to take, I realized that the best way to get my brother into the gun craze would be to give him one of my rifles that he can take and use as his own on the trip. I'd like this rifle to work on cape and potentially be a back up for pg as well (I assume 3 rifle for the two of us will be plenty).

Currently, the only rifle he has is a BLR 7-08 for deer and a marlin cowboy 44 mag, both of which he got from me.

My question is, should I give him my 416 remy (remington custom shop), M70 458 Lott or my M70 375 for his birthday in March? I've asked him, but he doesn't know enough to really make an informed decision.

So, the questions can be asked in the form of a hypothetical... if you had nothing but a 7mm, which big bore would you want for an upcoming buff hunt? Remember, this will probably be his only big bore for some time, unless I can get him hooked.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Being big doesn't neccessarily increase recoil tolerance. Start him on the 375 with light loads. If you're really indifferent as to which rifle you give him, let him try out all three and take his pick.

Your brother's a lucky guy. Have fun on the trip and enjoy all the preparation.

Nothing wrong with any of the choices, but considering the intended quarry, I'd vote for the M70 in .458 Lott assuming he can handle the recoil.

Actually, why not let him shoot all three rifles and see if devolopes a preference for one above the others.

If you need another younger brother to give guns to I'm up for adoption

Well, I think either of the Model 70s would be fine. If he is a good shot there is no reason the .375 H&H wouldn't be pretty near ideal.

Since he is your brother, and you are giving him a rifle, I assume you like him...so don't send him on a dangerous game hunt with a Remington.

375

416

As usual, Bill is right as rain. .375 H&H is the way to go. I'd get some TSX's in 270 grains. They'd be flat enough to kill anything within reasonable range.

+++ on the M70 in .375H&H

Another vote for the M70 in .375

I notice giving him the Heym doesn't seem to be one of the options...

.

My brother is a much better athlete than I, but I have shot much more than he. As a result, he is much more circumspect about his shooting than he needs to be. In our several trips to Africa, he has always benefited from our practices together (and they have been great fun too.)

If possible, I'd arrange to meet with your brother on a monthly or quarterly basis and shoot together in the manner people here have described for getting ready for a safari. I'd suggest the 375HH for many reasons: recoil is low, ammo is available, and it is a good back up to the other rifles you are taking.

Enjoy your trip and please let us see some pictures of your success. Kudude

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:
Being big doesn't neccessarily increase recoil tolerance. Start him on the 375 with light loads. If you're really indifferent as to which rifle you give him, let him try out all three and take his pick.

Your brother's a lucky guy. Have fun on the trip and enjoy all the preparation.

I know being big doesn't equate to high recoil tolerance, but he was a walk on line backer in college at UT (meaning he was a hitting dummy for the starters)... I assume he wouldn't have any trouble with a 416 etc. Can't really give him all three to compare etc. because we don't live in the same city.

The 375 H&H is a real baby. It weighs 9 lbs (same as my M70 Lott) and has a felt recoil similar to my 35 Whelen.


Thanks for all the suggestions guys and gals. The 375 is a great choice as he can hunt anything with it, and I don't need it because I have my 9.3. I'll probably end up giving him the 375 or a 416 (not necessarily the remy). Might just ship him those and let him pick.

"Since he is your brother, and you are giving him a rifle, I assume you like him...so don't send him on a dangerous game hunt with a Remington."

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
I notice giving him the Heym doesn't seem to be one of the options...

.

Not that good of a brother.

Take the largest chambering he can shoot well and with which he can get enough practice to be at ease with.

Practice, practice, practice!

The best gun for taking two buff in tanzania is probably the .416

However, someone who doesn't shoot often may dislike shooting. Its not about being man enough to cope with recoil, it is all about LIKING to shoot.

So I am ++++ one for the .375.

And with lighter bullets he is even more likely to enjoy this journey into shooting and big bores.

Dante

Take him to the range along with all the firearms in question. Let him try them all and see which one he likes and handles best. Good luck on the hunt!!

Since he is a big guy let him shoot a 458 Lott... Did you ever think of getting even...
Be kind let him wear hearing protection...

Show him the cartridges and let him pick one to shoot...



Mike

quote:

Originally posted by retreever:
Since he is a big guy let him shoot a 458 Lott... Did you ever think of getting even...
Be kind let him wear hearing protection...

Show him the cartridges and let him pick one to shoot...



Mike

I definitely smell what you're steppin in here.

He does like shooting and hunting etc.. We both grew up hunting hogs, deer, quail, dove etc. on our ranch. So, he's got plenty of experience hunting and shooting, he just hasn't shot too many big bores (shot a 505 Gibbs with me last Christmas). ALso, he's in his second year of a 4 year finance "hazing" stint in Houston, so he doesn't have much time.

We're headed back up to ou ranch in the panhandle for a hog/turkey hunt in a couple of weeks, and I'm going to talk him into coming. We'll break him in quick by loading up some 550 grained heaters in the Lott and see how he does. Thing is, he's bigger than me, so I can't get too carried away (I played golf, he played football).

Think a 550 solid on a Turkey tom is over kill?

quote:

Originally posted by maddenwh:

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:
Being big doesn't neccessarily increase recoil tolerance. Start him on the 375 with light loads. If you're really indifferent as to which rifle you give him, let him try out all three and take his pick.

Your brother's a lucky guy. Have fun on the trip and enjoy all the preparation.

I know being big doesn't equate to high recoil tolerance, but he was a walk on line backer in college at UT (meaning he was a hitting dummy for the starters)... I assume he wouldn't have any trouble with a 416 etc. Can't really give him all three to compare etc. because we don't live in the same city.

The 375 H&H is a real baby. It weighs 9 lbs (same as my M70 Lott) and has a felt recoil similar to my 35 Whelen.


Thanks for all the suggestions guys and gals. The 375 is a great choice as he can hunt anything with it, and I don't need it because I have my 9.3. I'll probably end up giving him the 375 or a 416 (not necessarily the remy). Might just ship him those and let him pick.

"Since he is your brother, and you are giving him a rifle, I assume you like him...so don't send him on a dangerous game hunt with a Remington."

Good idea. You didn't mention if you reload, but the .375 will be cheaper to feed while he's practicing if you don't.

I'd go with the .375 because of the versatility and since I own a model 70 in that caliber that is a tack driver.

Just about anybody that shoots should have a 375. I prefer it in M70.

I would give him the 375. It will be much more useful to him here in the US, unless he plans to return to Africa and hunt elephant or hippo on land in the future.

465H&H

Get him a Ruger or CZ in 416 Rigby

Add me to the 375 H&H mod 70 crowd! The 375H&H is all anyone really needs to hunt Africa as a client hunter. The rifle's weight, and recoil level is perfect, for carrying all day, and is the easiest of the three you mention to learn to shoot well, not to mention the cheapest to shoot a lot, for practice. With cape Buffalo on the minue, there is one other reason, that I personally consider to be a real plus with the Mod 70 over the Rem in any chambering, and that is the CRF action of the Winchester. The CRF feature is a real plus, when talking about a shooter who is new to big bore, and especially to dangerous game. The CRF feature is IDIOT PROOF ( in this case novice proof), and would certainly be my choice for your brother. If, however the 416 Rem cartridge was in a CRF action, then that might be my choice for myself, but for a novice I reccomend the 375 H&H. If it gets down to going into the weeds with a wounded Cape Buffalo, you always have the Heym, and a PH with a stopper. Between you and your brother, and the PH, there shouldn't be a problem!

I Give him the CRF, Mod 70, 375 H&H, and when he gets a little more experience with larger chamberings,he can invest in a double rifle like yours!

...............Good luck on yor, safari!

375 no question. The fact that he doesn't have a lot of time to practice just reinforces that choice. If you can shoot a 30-06 you can shoot a 375. The bigger calibers take some getting used to, and he won't have that time. He'll find more opportunity to use the 375 afterwards.
My 2 cents.

TerryR

I bought my brother a Whitworth 375 H&H for this past Christmas. Just because he's big, doesn't mean he'll take recoil -- I was a SHW lifter for A&M, and my brother plays golf -- and he can shoot all day w.o. any discomfort, whereas I have to be very careful. (Part of it could be old shoulder injuries in my case.)

It would be ideal to let him handle and shoot all three...

Which ever fits the best is the one he'll shoot the best...

If this is not possible I'd cast another vote for the 375...

I also agree with the others...being big and strong does not equate to being able to handle heavy recoil...

Seeing as he already has a Marlin....what about a Guide Gun in 45/70?.....sorry guys...couldn't leave that one alone . Now that I'm through with the wise a$$ comment, I like the 375, but the 416 better....or in my case the 404. If you can get him hooked...hook him on a bigger bore. The 416 is not bad...especially for a linebacker. Now a free safety is another story...

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

The 375 will work but the 416 will do it better and let it be a Remington --they get it done no matter what some of the green negative types like to say -- cuz that is BS!

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:
Being big doesn't neccessarily increase recoil tolerance. Start him on the 375 with light loads. If you're really indifferent as to which rifle you give him, let him try out all three and take his pick.

Your brother's a lucky guy. Have fun on the trip and enjoy all the preparation.

I am a big guy at 5'11 and 250. Recoil bothers me alot more than it does someone 100 pounds lighter. I absorb it, not flex with it.

This is the reason little Elmer Kieth could shoot a 378 Wby with a steel butt. That and he was nuts!

.375 or .416. I'd stay away from the really big stuff until he's got some bigger rifle experience under his belt.

375 - one world one gun

Have to admit I am partial to the M70, especially in a 416 Rem Mag The same rifle in a 375 would be a great combination.

quote:

Originally posted by D99:

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:
Being big doesn't neccessarily increase recoil tolerance. Start him on the 375 with light loads. If you're really indifferent as to which rifle you give him, let him try out all three and take his pick.

Your brother's a lucky guy. Have fun on the trip and enjoy all the preparation.

I am a big guy at 5'11 and 250. Recoil bothers me alot more than it does someone 100 pounds lighter. I absorb it, not flex with it.

This is the reason little Elmer Kieth could shoot a 378 Wby with a steel butt. That and he was nuts!

I agree with this completely and it's an excellent point. In fact, I think it's one reason many women can shoot bigger rifles fairly well. They're flexible and ride with the recoil instead of fighting it. I certainly have a tendency to fight the recoil too, at least until my senses come round and I realize it's a lost battle. I could see bigger guys having this problem.

My brother is bigger than me, but I'm no minnie mouse at 6'2" 200 lbs. I'll admit that I traded in the 470 for a 450/400 because I know I'll enjoy shooting it more nad using it regularly here in the states. That said, shooting my Lott occasionally is a real gas.

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I also liked the idea of a 404, but I don't think he'll ever have time to reload and won't want to deal with buying/finding factory snacks for a 404. Besides, I'd just end up keeping it for myself.

I've decided to go ahead and give him the M70 375 H&H... who knows, maybe he won't like it and will give it back...

I'll be selling the 416 on classifieds shortly, for any of those folks that aren't remy haters.

I am a 375 fan, but the more I use the .416 Rem. the more impressed I become with it..A 300 gr. bullet at 2700 FPS plus and a 400 gr. bullet at 2400 FPS just about covers the whole world of hunting...

I hate to say it, but I would opt for a .416 Rem if the little extra recoil isn't a problem.
but I will always have a .375 somewhere around this place where I hang my hat.