Not answering for Saeed...but for Tanzania...a shootable bull should be one that is judged to be > than 40 years of age...which are scarce as hens teeth after 30 years of rampant ele poaching.

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Originally posted by Texas Blue Devil:

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Originally posted by Saeed:
This is going to be my 11th consecutive year hunting in Tanzania.

Have not had a chance at an elephant so far, despite the fact we looked for them.

In fact, I have not seen a single shootable bull in Tanzania in the past ten years!!

Saeed,

I'm just a little curious,....what do you call a shootable bull??

In Tanzania they have a minimum ivory size, and we have never seen a single bull that would meet this requirement.

IIRC, they have a minimum length or minimum weight, both of which are fairly low- and still hard to find after all the poaching.

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Not answering for Saeed...but for Tanzania...a shootable bull should be one that is judged to be > than 40 years of age...which are scarce as hens teeth after 30 years of rampant ele poaching.

Poaching of elephants is not confined within the borders of Tanzania alone as there is rampant poaching going on next door which has not received enough publicity.

This >40 year theory should therefore be applied across the board for all African countries, not just Tanzania.

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Originally posted by fujotupu:

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Not answering for Saeed...but for Tanzania...a shootable bull should be one that is judged to be > than 40 years of age...which are scarce as hens teeth after 30 years of rampant ele poaching.

Poaching of elephants is not confined within the borders of Tanzania alone as there is rampant poaching going on next door which has not received enough publicity.

This >40 year theory should therefore be applied across the board for all African countries, not just Tanzania.

We don't want to mention Kenya in any negative way at all.

After all, they are PROTECTING wildlife from hunters!

Let me put another way.

I have seen more animals in the Selous than I have seen in a Kenyan game reserve!!

What does that tell you?

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Originally posted by fujotupu:

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Not answering for Saeed...but for Tanzania...a shootable bull should be one that is judged to be > than 40 years of age...which are scarce as hens teeth after 30 years of rampant ele poaching.

Poaching of elephants is not confined within the borders of Tanzania alone as there is rampant poaching going on next door which has not received enough publicity.

This >40 year theory should therefore be applied across the board for all African countries, not just Tanzania.

so Tz now has an age limit as opposed to a length/weight limit. oh Lord, we have opened a new can of worms now!

Unless they changed the regs recently (less than 2 years ago), its based on weight or length.

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Originally posted by crbutler:
Unless they changed the regs recently (less than 2 years ago), its based on weight or length.

No, they haven't changed and I doubt the authorities would even consider applying the suggested scientific >40 years proposal.

All of you that are thinking of coming out to Zim or have already booked for a trophy elephant please note that we as Trophy Consultants international will store all ivory and elephant products for as long as necessary free of charge. Please support our hunters and their industry and we will do all that we can to ensure your trophies are stored safely and returned to you once this ridiculous ban is lifted. Best Cuan
www.tci.co.zw

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Originally posted by fujotupu:

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Originally posted by crbutler:
Unless they changed the regs recently (less than 2 years ago), its based on weight or length.

No, they haven't changed and I doubt the authorities would even consider applying the suggested scientific >40 years proposal.

You are correct but they should consider doing it. In the situation of places like the Selous...removing a breeding age bull from the population is detrimental to the population...it can't be denied.

The very few elephants which might be shot by sports hunter would make no difference at all to the population in Tanzania.

It is the wholesale slaughter by poachers that is need to be addressed.

While statistically speaking you may be correct...if hunters are to hold themselves out as conservationists...they have to hold themselves accountable to conservation science and tactics. In populations devastated by poaching, as those in the Selous and many other regions...removing members of breeding herds is not the correct thing to do. Targeting post breeding age bulls is the only justifiable means of staying within the realms of sustainable hunting in these areas.

However, I wholeheartedly agree that the widespread large scale poaching is the real problem.

I have a leopard hunt scheduled with CMS in July and will probably shoot a tuskless as well.