David Hulme is correct that Martin was not killed IFO his family, as I stated in my original post. I recalled that myself after I'd posted it. The passage of time clouding my recollection perhaps. And David and I clearly agree that Martin was a man. Were any of you here responding to Martins' radio call for help when you ran into the roadblocks manned by AK47 wielding "war vets"?

I must say, I am quite surprised by some of the responses - Ivory Tower? What the hell is that about? I thought this was an opinion and discussion forum. Don't think I insulted anyone in my post, but I guess some can't engage in civil debate - kinda like Mad Bob.

I do not wish any of the HO or PH or their staff ill. The fact is, I wish them the best and will be pleased to return to hunt Zim again following the end of Mad Bobs' regime. I do believe they would be better off leaving the country, as many have, until the regime change occurs. I was there in 1997 and again in 1998. I've hunted all over Africa. But I won't hunt Zim until he's gone, anymore than I'd hunt North Korea or Venezuela while they are ruled by the current whack-jobs, because my mere presence and expenditure of dollars would signal a tacit support of all the criminally insane things Mad Bob has done. I cannot do that.

Never forget that there were a group of American volunteers who also fought in the Rhodesian War against Mad Bob and his boys.

Lionhunter, I apologize for my words.
I just get very defensive for the very good people I know there that are struggling not only to make a living and support their families, but are also using the money they make from hunters to support local orphanages.

Apology accepted.

I understand this is an emotional topic, with good people holding sincere positions on both sides of the argument. By the same token, there are some trying to capitalize on the distress of the people of Zimbabwe and take advantage of the situation. Some of these call themselves hunters, HOs and PHs. Every experienced African hand on this board knows, or should know, this is true.

Dr C

I may have a hard heart but I spent two years in Tanzania in the Peace Corp and two years in Zambia working for USAID. I was in and out of Rhodesia in '79 and '80 and have seen first hand how the best of intentions only prolong the misery instead of helping to change it.

Nothing will change until the bottom is found. I'm sorry for everyone but how is a Death Spiral any kinder than going straight in. A Death Spiral only takes longer and hurts more people.

It would depend on if your view is what is best for the majority of the people and the Country or what is good for a very small segment of the Country. Like tourists handing out candy to the children in the village, is it really a good idea for the Children or is it just to make the Tourists feel good?

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
By the same token, there are some trying to capitalize on the distress of the people of Zimbabwe and take advantage of the situation. Some of these call themselves hunters, HOs and PHs. Every experienced African hand on this board knows, or should know, this is true.

Lionhunter,

The only three people who work in or closly related to the hunting safari business who have commented on this thread are 458Aubs, Andrew and I.

458Aubs restricts his comments to the political history of the country and his comments are perfectly accurate and valid as his posts always are.

Andrew quite plainly states that he encourages people to hunt Zimbabwe but to make sure they book with the good guys. Which is very sensible advice.

The only other person 'in the business' to have commentated is me and the only thing I've posted is what's reported on the news and my real concern that we hadn't heard from our Zim based members for a while and I hoped they were safe. (we still haven't heard from Ganyaya and Don)

If you do a search on this or any other forum, you'll find that I don't discourage people from hunting anywhere and incidentally, I don't actively promote my own business here either.

My usual comment about hunting Zimbabwe, is that it's the individuals choice whether to hunt Zimbabwe or not, those that do want to will and those that don't want to, won't. But no-one has a right to criticise anyone else for making those choices. - I also say that those that do opt to hunt Zimbabwe should make sure they only book with the guys who have a good reputation and are well established over there........ which is very sensible advice.

So if your comment was aimed at 458Aubs, Andrew or I, you're mistaken.

If I am going to call someone out, you will have no doubt about it. No worries, I promise you.

If you read my posts you will plainly see that the operative word I use repeatedly is "SOME". I don't expect that any of those "SOME" post on this board. None of my comments were directed at you or the other gentlemen here. I have very clearly and definitively stated my positions. There are crooks in every business and African safari is no different in that regard, except that it is smaller and the infractions are more visible if one is paying attention. Some of them have attempted to exploit the troubles in Zim over the past 10 years. I doubt you disagree.

I can only tell you guys I got home from Zim two days ago and it is not a perfect picture. It is not near as bad as some think. We were there for two weeks and in Bulawayo, Vic Falls, Hwange, and all over Lake Kariba. We had no issues and there is still plenty of game in the hunting areas we stayed at. No doubt the situation in Zim is less than perfect, I think you you would be cheating yourself to not look at it as a hunting destination.

My biggest concern about hunting in Zim is whether I will ever see my trophies. It might seem like a selfish thought, but I work hard for my money to go hunting.

If something should happen in the government I wonder what will happen to all the trophies! I know it shouldn't be affected but hey we are talking about Africa.....

As always, it is the poor and down trodden who pay the price. It also doesn't help when your local Health minister has no clue about the causes of Cholera (like the last two SA ministers of health who had such wonderful ideas on curing AIDS).

If you don't play in the raw sewage - there is little risk of Cholera- stay out of the slums!!!

I actually think the greatest casualty list will come from the eastern mountains and over crowded tribal lands (where there is no hunting , due to rabies. It has the potential to make the cholera epidemic look mild.

Why don't the people rise up? It takes leadership - and that is clearly lacking. The MDC, rightly or wrongly are trying to stop an uprising or revolt and hope that somebody regionally will do something before the place folds or there is a revolution.

The soldiers that rioted and demonstrated in Harare last week were apprently executed on monday as a warning to others- and most of the Army has been disarmed or sent up to the DRC.

The real danger as I see it, is that the new look ZAPU (the Russian backed gooks during the bush war) are geting very fed up , and are begining to dig up their old AK's ...and many of them are the best bank robbers in SA and are comming home for Christmas bringing their guns with them. Given a leader, a low grade civil war could break out in the west of the country, which considering the moral in the army will be difficult to put down. However, it is unlikely to spread. The dommant tribe- The mashona are not by nature either a vilent or even assertive people. The mobs that were put up to invade the farms were mostly high on drink or - most commonly- angel dust. It takes real leadership and co-ordination to get trouble going- such as provided by the cubans and Russians during the bush war

Having fought all through the "dissident" war (1981-1987) that the risks to the prudent man are minimal- but it sure the heck scares off the tourists!

The cholera epidemic is over. So sayeth the Zim government.

quote:

Having fought all through the "dissident" war (1981-1987) that the risks to the prudent man are minimal- but it sure the heck scares off the tourists!

Spot-on!

JW out

"Cholera is a calculated racist terrorist attack on Zimbabwe by the unrepentant former colonial power which has enlisted support from its American and Western allies so that they invade the country," Ndlovu was quoted as saying.

And then there's this...I'm sure he means everybody but the hunters that come there - Surely he must have!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jeff Wemmer:
"Cholera is a calculated racist terrorist attack on Zimbabwe by the unrepentant former colonial power which has enlisted support from its American and Western allies so that they invade the country," Ndlovu was quoted as saying.
QUOTE]
Makes me think of the Kenyan lady Wangari Muta Maathai, Nobel of peace, who declared that AIDS has been invented by the white men to wipe off the black people.

QUOTE]
Makes me think of the Kenyan lady Wangari Muta Maathai, Nobel of peace, who declared that AIDS has been invented by the white men to wipe off the black people.[/QUOTE]

When I was a post grad student at the University of Zimbabwe we had our first two confirmed cases of HIV on the campus. The (new) Black chairman of Biological Sciences (Prof Gopo) Gave the whole University a Lecture- and described AIDS as American Invention to Discourage Sex.

Funny why 40% of the population are HIV pos with such wise leadership!

quote:

When I was a post grad student at the University of Zimbabwe we had our first two confirmed cases of HIV on the campus. The (new) Black chairman of Biological Sciences (Prof Gopo) Gave the whole University a Lecture- and described AIDS as American Invention to Discourage Sex.

Hmmm, on my college campus "Salisbury University" (no BS and I know you Rhodies love that name), our Biology dept head explained that as far as researchers could tell thus far (in 1984) that HIV was some form of Retrovirus whose origins stemmed from the island of Haiti and was largely confined to the Homosexual community.

We all breathed a collective sigh of releif and me and my Rugby brothers went back into the bars, located the ususal suspects (read: bad girls) and buggered our brains our for the next decade!!!

Ahhhh, the good old days!

JW

PS - Good tghing I'm not running for president of the USA. With that sort of rhetorric, I just might get elected!!!!

AIDS

I thought that meant Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome.