Apology to Muchinga Adventures

22 August 2015, 22:29

MARK H. YOUNG

Guys,

I have had some God awful Vegas flu for a solid week and have not followed this closely until today. It would seem the tide on this thread has turned to some sort of reasonableness rather than a full blown lynching via Internet. I applaud that. I would like to say that the Du Plooy's are some of the finest people I know in the industry. There never is any bullshit or overblown expectations with Muchinga and Johnny himself is at times brutally honest with his clients. Witnessed that myself.

I've hunted with Andrew and found him to be good PH and a good guy to be in the bush with a good and improving area. Therefore I found it a little disappointing that Andrew found it necessary to air his personal legal business on the Internet. I tend to think he could have found the thread he was looking for without splashing his documents on AR.

When I hunted with Muchinga in '12 I remember there being talk about taking less lions that year on purpose but I don't remember a number. I do remember having a discussion with Abie and Johnny about the young lion being taken. I came away from the conversation thinking they knew this had been a mistake BUT the other side of the coin was the client was insistent, felt he would never return to Africa again and most importantly it was not illegal. Maybe Abie's judgement call was flawed but I bet there isn't one PH out there that has not had a "Ah F!@k" moment.

Mark

22 August 2015, 22:44

MJines

I wonder when outfitters will learn that in most cases they lose far more than they gain when they decide to publicly criticize other outfitters. Like Andrew's thread on the South African buffalo hunt. Sort of an anti-marketing tool.

22 August 2015, 22:47

Steve Ahrenberg

quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
I wonder when outfitters will learn that in most cases they lose far more than they gain when they decide to publicly criticize other outfitters. Like Andrew's thread on the South African buffalo hunt. Sort of an anti-marketing tool.

Not amongst the AR sycophant crowd they don't.

23 August 2015, 06:03

Jason P

quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
I wonder when outfitters will learn that in most cases they lose far more than they gain when they decide to publicly criticize other outfitters. Like Andrew's thread on the South African buffalo hunt. Sort of an anti-marketing tool.

Probably one of the best pieces of advice that has been
written here, over the past few months. Unfortunately,
advice is something that too few are ever willing to take.

23 August 2015, 11:14

Andrew McLaren

quote:
Originally posted by Jason P:
quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
I wonder when outfitters will learn that in most cases they lose far more than they gain when they decide to publicly criticize other outfitters. Like Andrew's thread on the South African buffalo hunt. Sort of an anti-marketing tool.

~~Probably one of~~ Definitely the best piece of advice that has been
written here, over the past few months. Unfortunately,
advice is something that too few are ever willing to take.

Andrew McLaren
Professional Hunter and Hunting Outfitter since 1974.

http://www.mclarensafaris.com The home page to go to for custom planning of ethical and affordable hunting of plains game in South Africa!
Enquire about any South African hunting directly from andrew@mclarensafaris.com

After a few years of participation on forums, I have learned that:

One can cure:

Lack of knowledge – by instruction. Lack of skills – by practice. Lack of experience – by time doing it.

One cannot cure:

Stupidity – nothing helps! Anti hunting sentiments – nothing helps! Put-‘n-Take Outfitters – money rules!

My very long ago ancestors needed and loved to eat meat. Today I still hunt!

23 August 2015, 11:18

DCS Member

quote:
Originally posted by Andrew McLaren:
quote:
Originally posted by Jason P:
quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
I wonder when outfitters will learn that in most cases they lose far more than they gain when they decide to publicly criticize other outfitters. Like Andrew's thread on the South African buffalo hunt. Sort of an anti-marketing tool.

~~Probably one of~~ Definitely the best pieces of advice that has been
written here, over the past few months. Unfortunately,
advice is something that too few are ever willing to take.

Andrew, whatever happened to that fool who went off on you? That was ridiculous! Although he was a hunter, not an outfitter, he was terrible.

23 August 2015, 22:04

yellowstone

I will refrain from the lion fight, but I will offer my observations on Johnny, Laura, and Abie. I hunted Nyaminga on the banks of the Luangwa River for 21 days in 2012. Johnny was my PH. He was professional and competent in all aspects of our time together. That's certainly enough time for issues to develop, but we got along very well, and I'd enjoy sitting down and having a brew with him now. Laura was most gracious, opening their home/compound in Lusaka, with both her and Johnny sharing their family and their experiences with myself and other clients, some probable never to be seen again. Laura runs a tight ship in the financial end of Muchinga and addressed all matters without a blink. Abie was running safaris downriver at Chandjuzi and we crossed paths many times over the course of my own safari. I'm sure that many of you know Abie, so you know that he is one of a kind. let's call it engaging and entertaining. He's also good at what he does. In years past, he came here to Billings to the local SCI banquet to meet previous client and drum up more business. I would have no problem with hunting with Johnny and Muchinga in a New York second if I ever had the opportunity to do so again. I'm glad Zambia has reopened, and I wish Muchinga well in the future. No reason on my part to throw a metaphorical grenade onto this forum. Let's just all go hunting and enjoy the magic of safari.

24 August 2015, 14:34

Safaris Botswana Bound

In Most parts of Africa a court case will cost you a minimum of $15 000-00 , the latest thing amongst outfitters is to threaten anything with a lawyers letter - I dont know who is wrong or right , but its a whole lot cheaper to simply apologize in Africa and avoid the legal costs.

I disagree with the thought that AR is a Kangaroo court - I have had some arsewipes try the BS on these threads and so long as you have the facts and the paperwork the vast majority of the jury will see the truth. True democracy .

24 August 2015, 18:50

fairgame

quote:
Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Guys,

I have had some God awful Vegas flu for a solid week and have not followed this closely until today. It would seem the tide on this thread has turned to some sort of reasonableness rather than a full blown lynching via Internet. I applaud that. I would like to say that the Du Plooy's are some of the finest people I know in the industry. There never is any bullshit or overblown expectations with Muchinga and Johnny himself is at times brutally honest with his clients. Witnessed that myself.

I've hunted with Andrew and found him to be good PH and a good guy to be in the bush with a good and improving area. Therefore I found it a little disappointing that Andrew found it necessary to air his personal legal business on the Internet. I tend to think he could have found the thread he was looking for without splashing his documents on AR.

When I hunted with Muchinga in '12 I remember there being talk about taking less lions that year on purpose but I don't remember a number. I do remember having a discussion with Abie and Johnny about the young lion being taken. I came away from the conversation thinking they knew this had been a mistake BUT the other side of the coin was the client was insistent, felt he would never return to Africa again and most importantly it was not illegal. Maybe Abie's judgement call was flawed but I bet there isn't one PH out there that has not had a "Ah F!@k" moment.

Mark

Mark,

Please note I have done exactly what the Du Plooy's requested me to do with reference to the alleged misquote. I cannot be liable for negative remarks on a public forum.

Being an agent for Muchinga I am sure you were up to speed on their quotas.

Best

Andrew

24 August 2015, 19:03

fairgame

quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
I wonder when outfitters will learn that in most cases they lose far more than they gain when they decide to publicly criticize other outfitters. Like Andrew's thread on the South African buffalo hunt. Sort of an anti-marketing tool.

That would be conjecture Mike.

24 August 2015, 19:19

MJines

So are you suggesting that outfitters benefit from and should use thread crapping on other outfitters as a marketing tool?

24 August 2015, 19:58

fairgame

quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
So are you suggesting that outfitters benefit from and should use thread crapping on other outfitters as a marketing tool?

Dunno and I will have to try it sometime.

24 August 2015, 19:59

Saeed

So far, no one has denied that what Andrew originally stated was not correct.

I hope Africa is not going to descend into the stupidity that America is suffering from - threats of legal action even when one is right.

And as we all know, this only came about to line the pockets of the lawyers!

24 August 2015, 20:01

Bwana Bunduki

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
So far, no one has denied that what Andrew originally stated was not correct.

I hope Africa is not going to descend into the stupidity that America is suffering from - threats of legal action even when one is right.

And as we all know, this only came about to line the pockets of the lawyers!

I shall now sue you for suggesting Americans are stupid....

Jeff

24 August 2015, 20:06

fairgame

quote:
Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
So far, no one has denied that what Andrew originally stated was not correct.

I hope Africa is not going to descend into the stupidity that America is suffering from - threats of legal action even when one is right.

And as we all know, this only came about to line the pockets of the lawyers!

I shall now sue you for suggesting Americans are stupid....

Jeff

Jeff you are not crapping on my thread are you?

24 August 2015, 20:54

Bwana Bunduki

quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
quote:
Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
So far, no one has denied that what Andrew originally stated was not correct.

I hope Africa is not going to descend into the stupidity that America is suffering from - threats of legal action even when one is right.

And as we all know, this only came about to line the pockets of the lawyers!

I shall now sue you for suggesting Americans are stupid....

Jeff

Jeff you are not crapping on my thread are you?

Never sir. Poking fun at Saeed only attempting levity....

24 August 2015, 21:13

MJines

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
So far, no one has denied that what Andrew originally stated was not correct.

No one except Andrew who snapped out his apology as soon as he was called out.

24 August 2015, 21:38

fairgame

Mike,

I am a one man band and do not have any other helping me or to call on. To be in court would be disastrous for me and would impact financially on my community. Good people want hunt with me and no other.

24 August 2015, 22:05

MJines

quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
Mike,

I am a one man band and do not have any other helping me or to call on. To be in court would be disastrous for me and would impact financially on my community. Good people want hunt with me and no other.

Be careful, you will throw your shoulder out trying to pat yourself on the back and then disappoint all those good people who only want to hunt with you.

24 August 2015, 22:18

fairgame

quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
Mike,

I am a one man band and do not have any other helping me or to call on. To be in court would be disastrous for me and would impact financially on my community. Good people want hunt with me and no other.

Be careful, you will throw your shoulder out trying to pat yourself on the back and then disappoint all those good people who only want to hunt with you.

I think we just let the good folks on AR be my reference here Mike.

24 August 2015, 22:56

surefire7

Well, for what it's worth, I've now hunted with Andrew twice.

I am now planning my next two safaris with him also. A happy and satisfied client.

This is just my opinion, and is not intended to disrespect anyone else's. We all see life differently due to our own personal experiences. As for me, I am in Andrew's corner.

24 August 2015, 23:03

fairgame

quote:
Originally posted by surefire7:
Well, for what it's worth, I've now hunted with Andrew twice.

I am now planning my next two safaris with him also. A happy and satisfied client.

This is just my opinion, and is not intended to disrespect anyone else's. We all see life differently due to our own personal experiences. As for me, I am in Andrew's corner.

And pray do tell me surefire7 that did I not provide a better experience than your previous safaris in Africa? And did I not stand by your side often in the face of danger. And I kept my word and we shook hands on a simple agreement.

Now that is a pat on the shoulder.

24 August 2015, 23:05

fairgame

quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
Mike,

I am a one man band and do not have any other helping me or to call on. To be in court would be disastrous for me and would impact financially on my community. Good people want hunt with me and no other.

Be careful, you will throw your shoulder out trying to pat yourself on the back and then disappoint all those good people who only want to hunt with you.

Sorry Mike are you asking to hunt with me?

24 August 2015, 23:18

Bwana Bunduki

quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
Mike,

I am a one man band and do not have any other helping me or to call on. To be in court would be disastrous for me and would impact financially on my community. Good people want hunt with me and no other.

Be careful, you will throw your shoulder out trying to pat yourself on the back and then disappoint all those good people who only want to hunt with you.

Sorry Mike are you asking to hunt with me?

If we have having a vote, I will hunt with you again Andrew.

Jeff

24 August 2015, 23:24

MJines

quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
Mike,

I am a one man band and do not have any other helping me or to call on. To be in court would be disastrous for me and would impact financially on my community. Good people want hunt with me and no other.

Be careful, you will throw your shoulder out trying to pat yourself on the back and then disappoint all those good people who only want to hunt with you.

Sorry Mike are you asking to hunt with me?

No chance, but thanks for asking. I am actually fairly particular about who I hunt with. Besides there are plenty of good reputable operators in Zambia, like Alister Norton for instance.

24 August 2015, 23:45

fairgame

quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
Mike,

I am a one man band and do not have any other helping me or to call on. To be in court would be disastrous for me and would impact financially on my community. Good people want hunt with me and no other.

Be careful, you will throw your shoulder out trying to pat yourself on the back and then disappoint all those good people who only want to hunt with you.

Sorry Mike are you asking to hunt with me?

No chance, but thanks for asking. I am actually fairly particular about who I hunt with. Besides there are plenty of good operators in Zambia, like Alister Norton for instance.

Alister Norton is not an operator Mike but a very fine PH and a gifted young man and you would do very well with him. I promise you have no clue who are the operators in this country. Fine individuals in themselves but not known to you.

I am very particular who I hunt with and therefore you will never have the privilege of hunting with me.

24 August 2015, 23:49

MJines

Rest assured I am hardly offended. We obviously have different definitions of privilege. I like professional hunters that spend at least as much time hunting as they do blogging. Suggests to me that they have their priorities properly sorted.

25 August 2015, 00:01

Saeed

When all this bullshit settles, would someone please tell us if the number of lion Andrew had posted are not what they had on quota??

If it is not, then Andrews apology is called fort.

If it is, then whoever set the lawyers onto Andrew need to apologize!

No two ways about it.

25 August 2015, 00:07

fairgame

quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
Rest assured I am hardly offended. We obviously have different definitions of privilege. I like professional hunters that spend at least as much time hunting as they do blogging. Suggests to me that they have their priorities properly sorted.

Again conjecture.

25 August 2015, 00:15

MJines

Post counts don't lie.

25 August 2015, 00:22

fairgame

quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
Rest assured I am hardly offended. We obviously have different definitions of privilege. I like professional hunters that spend at least as much time hunting as they do blogging. Suggests to me that they have their priorities properly sorted.

A lot of the PHs here cannot read or write so the reason is fairly simple.

Have you dug up anything negative about me yet?

25 August 2015, 00:28

MJines

quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
Rest assured I am hardly offended. We obviously have different definitions of privilege. I like professional hunters that spend at least as much time hunting as they do blogging. Suggests to me that they have their priorities properly sorted.

A lot of the PHs here cannot read or write so the reason is fairly simple.

Have you dug up anything negative about me yet?

Who needs to dig? You do a great job on your own. Please proceed.

25 August 2015, 00:30

Frostbit

quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
Rest assured I am hardly offended. We obviously have different definitions of privilege. I like professional hunters that spend at least as much time hunting as they do blogging. Suggests to me that they have their priorities properly sorted.

A lot of the PHs here cannot read or write so the reason is fairly simple.

Have you dug up anything negative about me yet?

You have no clue how to hang a mirror or where to place a toilet paper holder.

______________________
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Hunt Reports

2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112
2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012
DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191
Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771
Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141
Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141

25 August 2015, 00:33

Saeed

quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
Post counts don't lie.

Mike,

Do YOU know the number of lions they were offering were not 9??

If you do, please tell us the right number.

Otherwise we will all know that what Andrew has said is correct, and letting the lawyers loose at him is nothing but to stop the truth coming out.

And I really could not care less how well their reputation is, any outfitter who tries to cover the truth by taking whoever tells it to court is on my blacklist.

So, tell us all what is the number of lions they were offering?

Let us stop the argument right here and now!

All this started by them threatening Andrew with legal action for what he had said.

Did he say the right number or not??

25 August 2015, 00:34

fairgame

quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
Rest assured I am hardly offended. We obviously have different definitions of privilege. I like professional hunters that spend at least as much time hunting as they do blogging. Suggests to me that they have their priorities properly sorted.

A lot of the PHs here cannot read or write so the reason is fairly simple.

Have you dug up anything negative about me yet?

Who needs to dig? You do a great job on your own. Please proceed.

Mike you would do well to stick to the Big Bore forum.

25 August 2015, 00:44

fairgame

quote:
Originally posted by Frostbit:
quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
Rest assured I am hardly offended. We obviously have different definitions of privilege. I like professional hunters that spend at least as much time hunting as they do blogging. Suggests to me that they have their priorities properly sorted.

A lot of the PHs here cannot read or write so the reason is fairly simple.

Have you dug up anything negative about me yet?

You have no clue how to hang a mirror or where to place a toilet paper holder.

Exactly Jim. But we stood side by side in front of Lions and shot them at a few paces. And few have done what we did.

Not bad for some internet blogging so called PH?

25 August 2015, 00:47

ChrisTroskie

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
Post counts don't lie.

Mike,

Do YOU know the number of lions they were offering were not 9??

If you do, please tell us the right number.

Otherwise we will all know that what Andrew has said is correct, and letting the lawyers loose at him is nothing but to stop the truth coming out.

And I really could not care less how well their reputation is, any outfitter who tries to cover the truth by taking whoever tells it to court is on my blacklist.

So, tell us all what is the number of lions they were offering?

Let us stop the argument right here and now!

All this started by them threatening Andrew with legal action for what he had said.

Did he say the right number or not??

Maybe Andrew can answer this question better...

Andrew, did you say the right number or not?

25 August 2015, 00:50

RichardAustin

quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
Post counts don't lie.

May we rest assured none of your 9300 plus posts have overlapped onto billable hours, just for honesty's sake?

25 August 2015, 00:52

Bwana Bunduki

quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
quote:
Originally posted by Frostbit:
quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
Rest assured I am hardly offended. We obviously have different definitions of privilege. I like professional hunters that spend at least as much time hunting as they do blogging. Suggests to me that they have their priorities properly sorted.

A lot of the PHs here cannot read or write so the reason is fairly simple.

Have you dug up anything negative about me yet?

You have no clue how to hang a mirror or where to place a toilet paper holder.

Exactly Jim. But we stood side by side in front of Lions and shot them at a few paces. And few have done what we did.

Not bad for some internet blogging so called PH?

I though my brother killing his leopard with the plane already in bound from Lusaka was rather a nice touch. Quit didn't seem to be in the game plan...

Jeff

25 August 2015, 00:54

MJines

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
Post counts don't lie.

Mike,

Do YOU know the number of lions they were offering were not 9??

If you do, please tell us the right number.

Otherwise we will all know that what Andrew has said is correct, and letting the lawyers loose at him is nothing but to stop the truth coming out.

And I really could not care less how well their reputation is, any outfitter who tries to cover the truth by taking whoever tells it to court is on my blacklist.

So, tell us all what is the number of lions they were offering?

Let us stop the argument right here and now!

All this started by them threatening Andrew with legal action for what he had said.

Did he say the right number or not??

Who apologized to who? If he did nothing wrong, why would someone apologize . . . on line? If someone demanded that you apologize for something you were in the right on, would you apologize?