That's it! I want a booze discount, I don't drink and I don't feel I should pay for it!

On a hunting trip near Port Elizabeth in 2001 we hunted on one farm for two or three days where the cost of doing business was openly discussed...I was having so much fun I couldn't stand it and I did not care what the economic impacts were. We were on a dirt cheap hunt anyway...The hunt we were on was a 7 day hunt, 2x1, for five animals/pp for about $2350 each. We could, and did, add additional animals. I thought then and I think now that that was an excellent deal. Anyway, when we were on this farm or ranch for a day or two, where I shot a zebra and a gemsbuck, the owner asked me what I was paying for those two animals. We were hunting with an outfit that had contracted with this owner for certain animals, and as it turned out, the owner wanted to know the difference between what our safari company was paying him for a zebra and what I was paying the safari company for the same zebra....he was stunned and so was I when we compared data! He got maybe $250-$300 for my $900 zebra. Our PH did not like the owner talking this type of business. We all had a great time though. This guy was very open about biltong hunting..they had large tall stands (like a Texas deer stand) from which local folks shot kudu and impala. He said they sold the animals or just the meat by the kilogram. Other farms we hunted did exactly the same thing. I never felt ripped off.

Typically the property owner gets about half of the trophy fee for trophies taken by visiting hunters plus the meat, unless it's a very exotic animal in which case the landlord can auction it for as much as the total trophy fee and won't accept half.

The meat is worth about $2 per lb, can be a two or three hundred for a large animal.

He clearly needs to do an apples to apples comparison using the same outfitter. Of course this is not realistic because foreign hunters aren't coming for two warthogs for one day.

It is fairly obvious what the outfitter is doing. He has some premimum animals for sale and some not so premium animals for sale. Rather than culling the not so premiums i.e. doing all the work himself, he is making money selling them off to the locals. I see nothing wrong with this practice, it makes good sense. It is not much different than selling a management buck for $1500 versus a 170 class buck for $5000 (or more). It's what the market will bear.

Russ:
I don't come to a hunting site to get into a pissing match. I think you are forcing me to do it. I feel I have to defend myself.
Here's 3 smart ass comments by you, directed at me.
1. Lets not make flying statements about being ripped off.
2. or just sit home and count your money,saving the rest for us.
3. So, please, go be the grinch on some other BB.
First let me give you a little background on myself. I'm 66 years old, hunted all over the USA, Mexico and now one trip to Africa. I've been in Alaska since 1966. I was a Guide up here for Dalls Sheep and Brn Bear for a while.I didn't like it, so I quit. I just want you to know I'm not a newbie at this stuff.
It seems you are having a bit of a problem at reading comprehension so I will restate the info which I posted above. I dug out the invoices from the hunt in question so the info is not from memory. We hunted 2 days with this outfit. They accepted us back the second day at the local price.
1. Day one, 2 hunters x 1 day R500 Thats with a PH, transportation on the farm and meat prep.
Now Russ, read that last sentence very carefully, there is no mention of airport pickup, meals, booze,trophy animals or accomodations.
2. Day 2, 2 hunters x 1 day R500
2 warthogs R1000
There was no restriction on animal size. We were not on a cull hunt.
Its impossible to do an accurate comparison on the day hunt because of the variables,accomodations, booze, airport pickup etc. so lets look at the cost of the Hogs.
1. Local cost R500. Tourist cost R2100
There are no variables in this price except advertising for tourist. Slick brochure/SCI Booth/Outfitter cost etc.
My original statement about 1000% markup does not apply to the cost of the hogs alone.Lets revise that figure to 400% I still call it a "Rip Off".
Are you following me so far Russ?
My original comments were made in response to a question about different prices for different people. I stay behind this post.
Russ, I see you are an outfitter, so you have a dog in this hunt. I don't. I'm just a dumass hunter looking for an affordable hunt in Africa.I'm not in any way opposed to outfitters. We need them for info. I just get a bit irritated when one jumps me when I step in his rice bowl a bit.
If you need more info Russ, I'll be happy to provide anything I can.
I tried to tone down the cuss words and smartass comments as much as I could, but if I offended anyone, I apologize.

Regarding the trophy fee for warthogs:

We offer warthog as specific trophies at two of our four properties. The trophy prices range from $120 in Zululand to $320 in Namibia. These are for "Trophy Size" hogs, and include caping and salting of capes, and skull prep. I feel the Namibia price is quite stiff, but that's more or less the going rate up that way. If you shoot a lesser hog, you would only pay circa $200. The price TJ quoted, R2100 per hog, is about $350 at today's rate which is also at the upper end of the spectrum, way too much for an average wart hog.

The prices quoted for local warthog hunters, ie R500 per hog (circa $90) , is at the low end of the spectrum but is not unusually cheap.

Most operations offer warthog to visiting hunters as part of a package of five to eight trophies, which includes 7 to 10 days hunting for $3500 to $5000. That's very cheap considering ONE moose will set you back more than that up in AK, and for your money you get to sleep in a Cabela's tent in your own sleeping bag and eat dehydrated food.

Back to Africa. There are bargains to be had when a specific property is trying to reduce numbers. For example, we are offering BWB at $500 and Kudu at $550 in the Limpopo Valley right now*. Warthog often fall into this category (ie we have too many) because they are prolific breeders.

Regarding day rates, I think TJ has now admitted that you can't compare local rates to foreign hunter rates, certainly not based on his one data point, since you are not comparing apples to apples. Foreign hunters get a completely different service than locals when it comes to day rates. The rate TJ paid, ie R500 per day, is about right for locals hunting from a vehicle they don't own. However, he got a deal because that price normally does NOT include a PH, only a tracker (whose real job is to keep an eye on trigger-happy local hunters). I suspect they threw in the PH because they would be breaking the law if they let foreigners go hunt without a PH. Why they charged TJ the local rate, I don't know. Probably wasn't worth the hassle for two days and one hog. He was fortunate indeed.

So I still don't see any rip-off, and I am very puzzled as to why TJ is angry, he lucked out big time. However, I have learned that there are certain people you just can't please, no matter what, and I try to avoid them!

BTW, my comment about being ripped off was aimed at all who have voiced this sentiment, thankfully they are few in number. And my comment about staying home read "and save the rest OF us", meaning those who are more interested in their sheckels than a good time and a quality hunt should not inflict themselves on the rest of us. But, like Dick Cheney, I felt a lot better after telling TJ to go be a grinch on some other BB, that one was aimed straight between his eyes and I do believe it was on target!

*This offer is only for hunters who are of good cheer.

Wait a minute, are you saying that property charged R2100 to "tourists" for the services outlined ie PH, Trans and prep of meat? If so yes this would be a rip off as that is the average price for the full montie, i e all you got plus room and board, laundry daily and booze etc.

Nope, Russ the snide grinch remark didn't hit between the eyes, it didn't even hit me in the butt. Me angry? I don't think so. I got 2 days hunting and 2 hogs for the local price so why would I be angry?
In this case you can compare apples to apples and tourist to local prices.
Let me try to simplify it again.
We were quoted a certain price for certain services. These services included a PH, transportation on the farm,animal prep and the trophy fee.
When they found out we were tourist they wanted to raise the price for the same services. That's pretty much apples to apples.
I hope that explains it, if not, I give up.
You won't have to try to avoid me Russ, I'll take care of that myself. I guess I put my foot in your little rice bowl and offended you. Tough, get over it.
That's enough discussion on this subject, I think I'll get back to hunting.

Gentlemen



It has always costed more for Foreign hunters regardless for the geographic location. A foreign hunter in USA will pay more for the arrangements, tags etc. than the locals.



Cheers

/ JOHAN

TJ,

Frankly I found your post hard to understand, it was not clear whether you paid the local price or the foreign "rip off" price.

Are you saying that the foreign hunters would have paid $1000 for a day's hunting and two warthogs, excluding meals, drinks and overnight accommodation? I contest that, as the daily rate always includes those items. I also contest that the locals can buy a day's guiding by a qualified PH, the use of a vehicle, trophy fees and two hogs and meat processing for $165 (SAR 1000)at most ranches. The normal "biltong hunter" rates are R250/day for a vehicle including a black tracker not a PH, an additional R250/day "Day Fee" just for the pleasure of being there, plus circa R500 per hog. Outfitters don't get too picky about hog sizes, but try shoot a trophy size kudu for a biltong price and see what happens!

My post addressed the allegation that foreigners are being ripped off. For the reasons I provided, I don't believe that is the case, as foreign hunters require more care and feeding than locals and they are after the precious few trophy-size animals the property yields each year.

Even if the profit on foreign hunters is egregious, as you intimate, there are thousands that have huge grins on their faces and can't wait to go back.

So please, go be the grinch on some other BB.