Gents: Don't know if the horse is dead yet, but after a search, I could not come up with any useful commnents on illuminated scopes. I have decided to buy a Leupy 1.5X5 for my M70 CS .375H&H after your helpful input.
Before I order (tomorrow)do any of you have field expeience with these? Would I be foolish to buy the illuminated 1.5X5?The one reason I could see buying it is that for near dawn/dusk (leopard?)hunting with my older and not so good eyes the dot or cross could make the difference between a successful hunt or not. I believe that failure is not a huge factor in that if the battery/electronics fail, it will go to black anyway. Is the illuminated duplex, dot or German 4a the way to go? If I did not get the illumniated version, it would be the regular duplex reticle. Any comments to help me with my decision? Thanks in advance. Scott

I've posted on this subject a couple times, if you did a search on my posts you'll probably find them.

However, right now the only way I'll buy another illuminated scope is if it just puts a tiny dot and does not simply illuminate the recticle. The problem is that when it is dark enough that you truly need an illuminated aiming point, the lit recticle will wash out the picture so you have a hard time seeing the animal. So you end up with the option of either seeing the animal and guessing where the crosshair is or else seeing the crosshair and guessing where the animal is. Anyway, if you can get one with a dot that lights up go for it, but otherwise I'd suggest just going with a standard scope.

I have little use for gadgets in my hunting, batteries go dead at the most inopertune times you know...All this stuff is company hype...A good low power fixed scope will allow you to hunt the world over 10 times..These high dollar European scopes are a joke IMHO and bring to mind a fool and his money are soon parted as Thomas J once said, maybe he said it twice!!

I hunted leopard, buffalo and hyena with one (Leupold 1.5x5 w/German reticle, not an expensive scope by anybody's definition) last year, and I would not be without it again. The illumination is adjustable, and I never had any "wash out" whatsoever. When it is just getting dark, set it to "3". At the last legal light, turn it up a few clicks. Take a spare $5.00 battery in case you leave it on accidentally. Real simple. In low light, it gave me a perfect view of the animal, without having to concentrate on finding the crosshairs. When you don't need it, it's a "traditional" scope. I used it again a bit ago on elephant, and didn't even put a battery in it. I'll be using one again with a fine duplex reticle shortly to hunt buffalo and lion (where there is the possibility of early morning shooting). If you are buying a scope anyway, and considering what a hunt costs today, why would you not want to put yourself in the best possible position to take a shot that you may not otherwise be able to take, or take and do badly on?



The other viable option - perhaps - is to get a higher light-gathering scope (although there is a limit to what the human eye can take advantage of), as there were times at last light where I could not see the branch/bait well, where the PH could with bino's. Of course, this is the time to stop hunting. However, if buffalo is on the menu, a high-power scope is less desirable then the 1.5x5 with it's excellent eye relief and field of vision. My 2-cents...good luck.



Edit : Note These are on a .416 Rem and a .458 Lott; no durability issues experienced.

If you are going to be hunting in the dark or near dark, such as for lion or leopard, and feel that you would take a shot under those conditions if it was presented, it would be really DUMB not to take one. They can only help not hurt if you have any brains at all. If they fail, then you are no worse off than if you didn't have them to start with. As it gets darker turn the rheostat down so that the crosshairs or dot barely glows. Simple enough.

True, a good 50 or 56mm Euro scope may do as well with the proper reticle, but their inertial weight may cause them to crater on a hard kicker, not to mention they cost well over twice as much in the US.

Your scope choice is hard to beat for the conditions you describe.

I, like you, was very interested in a illuminated scope for an upcoming African hunt with leopard on the dance card. I read the article on scopes by Barsness in the latest Rifle magazine. In that article, very knowledgeable people disparage them, particularly their durability, on heavy rifles.

Now, you don't need a heavy rifle to shoot a leopard, but you can't take three guns to Africa any more. The two you can take should be able to be switched out, if necessary, to handle the whole trip. Therefore, you need a "heavy" rifle and you don't need an illuminated reticle, if Barsness is to be believed.

I bought a Tasco illuminated scope a couple of years ago, and you really have to balance the lighted reticle putting it at its lowest setting relative to ambient light to prevent an overall redish glare in the scope which obscures your vision. I thought a quality scope from Nosler or a Euro scope might cure this;however, they apparently present durability issues.

I am really at a loss at this point. I don't like 50mm and 56mm objective scopes. I guess I'll take my rifles with the scopes that normally live on them, and eat carrots. Ku-dude

JetBlueMan,

I used a Trijicon illuminated 3-9X40 in Zim in '02 to take a leopard, and I took an illuminated 1.5-6X42 Schmidt & Bender after whitetail deer last fall. Both worked as advertised, and the reticle in either is still there if all illumination fails (the Trijicon does not have batteries though).

My wife has the scope you propose to buy on her '06, and reports the only down side is leaving the unit switched on.

I would like to read more reports of actual use, but my opinion is these units have real capabilities that can help the hunter deliver the shot. I also feel that in a leopard scope you need a 36 mm objective, and 40 or 42 mm is mo' bettah.

jim dodd

As a licensed Master Big Game Guide & Outfitter here in Alaska and veteran of a few African safaris, I have a Schmidt & Bender 1.5 x 6 x42 Illuminated Reticle Scope on my .416 Remington and I absolutely love it and have used the illuminated reticle a number of times, both here in Alaska and in Africa and have found it, and the Schmidt & Bender scope in general, to be worth the extra money!

When I purchased this scope four or five years ago, Schmidt & Bender were the first to offer an illuminated reticle and that is one of the major reasons I ordered it but now many other scope makers offer illuminated reticles and though they add extra money to the price of the scope, for hunting dangerous game in low light they more than pay for themselves.

I have shot hundreds of rounds through my .416 with this scope and have never had any problems, even though in general it is not a particularily small scope and it has a rather large objective lens for a DG scope (42mm), which is excellent during low light conditions, and the illuminated recticle is varible so I can control the intensity of the illuminated reticle. At around US$1,500 it may not be necessary for everyone but for a person that makes their living backing up wounded animals in low light and/or thick conditions, I feel it is worth it and would recommend them to anyone.

By the way, spending the extra money on really good detachable scope mounts is important in heavy caliber dangerous game rifles and I use EAW mounts (made in Germany) on my .416 and not only do they hold the scope very firmly but when detached, they return it to zero everytime. Many of my European clients that use these same mounts actually carry the detached scope in a special pocket in their day backpacks when hunting and then put it on if time and circumstances allow.

Alaskan PH

I have 4 illuminated reticle scopes and find them very useful in low light hunting situations.

I have never had a properly adjusted illuminated reticle "wash out" an animal and have never experienced an illumination failure in the field.

If you carry a spare battery (my Swarovski scopes have an extra compartment in the windage turret cap for a spare) it only takes a minute to change them. Before important hunts I simply put in a fresh battery and have never needed to change one in the field.

The illumination has made difficult or impossible shots easy on many occaisions over the years, as the "big ones" often wait until dark to come out. I've cleanly killed dozens of deer and wild hogs with the help of illuminated reticles that I would otherwise not have been able to shoot.

Most recently, the illuminated 4A-IK reticle in my Swarovski 1.5-6x42 helped me make a difficult shot on a leopard in Namibia with my .375 H&H.

Personally, I have found illuminated scopes to be an asset, never a liability.

I have had several Illuminated scopes and still have Zeiss Night force optics Leupold etc. But have never used the option in hunting matter
If the option in not that much extra $ then I get it but I do not look for it in a scope.
For Africa I do not think that it is that big a deal, but a good scope with great light transmitting is nice


Cheers,

Andr�

Your 1.5-5 Leuopold is a fine scope, and if you send it to Premier Recticle for a 4a recticle replacement, I believe you will be very happy. This will not void your warranty. My good friend Mark in SC has used Illuminated recticles for quite a few years as he states, in fact we're going hog hunting this weekend. However, he has trained himself to "check or replace" batteries immediately prior to each hunt, and he has backup scopes. He is speaking from extensive low-light EXPERIENCE, not prejudice against any technology newer than smokeless powder. However, there are a few other options:
1. Mount a 30mm Aimpoint red dot illuminated scope in the "Scout" or forward position. Only one ring needed, and if mounted properly, your "iron sights" will still be usable through the Aimpoint (in event of failure).
2. Use above for lowlight, and your 1.5-5 on QD mounts for dawn to dusk hunting.

I assume your not trying to hunt at 200 yards in lowlight, so you can confirm zero repeatability during your practice. The latter gives you the best of both worlds.

Safe Hunting,

Clint

I've use IR and non IR on just about everything. For the most part, there is no real advantage. Where I like the IR is for medium to low shots in early morning or late afternoon when trying to see the reticle in the shaddows of where the animal is hiding. If a kudu is right at a tree line at 300m at 7am and you have a clear shot, but loose the reticle in the very long shaddows, it is very difficult to pull the trigger with confidence. Loopy's IR is great on the duplex, as it only illuminates the center or thin part, so washout is greatly reduced and confidence is greatly restored. At least the reticle is still there when the IR is "off" so you can still hunt "gadget free" during the day.
Just mho.

If you want a leopard, an illuminated reticle is a good idea, even strongly advisable, in my opinion. But only if it's incorporated into a high end scope, maybe including the Leupolds, but never having used a Leupold illuminated reticle scope, I don't know and can't say how they are.



I use high end German and Austrian glass and (so far, non-illuminated) Leupolds only. The Euro glass isn't cheap but the best never is. Last year, I had my 7mm Mag with a new Schmidt & Bender 2.5-10x56mm Zenith scope (with the No. 7 reticle) on top the first evening in the blind. The central crosshairs were invisible even on this incredibly bright scope when a too small tom appeared in the tree. I maybe could have shot him, but it would have been a riskier shot than I would have liked.



Having learned from my own "experience" (I like that term better than "mistake"), on the next evening's trip to another blind, I took my .375, which had a new Schmidt & Bender Flash Dot 1.25-4x20mm scope on top (also with the No. 7 reticle). The Flash Dot can be used with or without illumination. It has eleven brightness levels, and when switched on, only a small red dot is projected onto the intersection of the crosshairs. Nothing is washed out.



Long story short, that night I put the dot on chui's shoulder, pressed the trigger and he died.

I'm with Ray ( and most African PHs ) on this one. I recommend you get the heavy duplex and be done with it. That in and of itself will give you what you need for those "almost dark" shots.jorge

"Most African PHs" don't use scopes.... Check out Robertson's recommendations (Perfect Shot) with regards to leopard hunting and scopes.

The "high end" German glass is a joke (as compared with a Leupold) to the same extent that a Mercedes Benz S600 is "funnier" than a Ford Taurus.

But to appreciate the joke, I think you have to have a "low end" sense of humor. Swine, after all, have never been known to appreciate pearls. No offense, Ray!

I love em. I have only had one on a 308 ,not a big kicker. In Australia and Europe where a lot of hunting is done at night or close to it ,they are more usefull. The dot can be made very bright for quick aiming in the day time,then turned down for night use. If it is getting dark, you can lose the reticles in the leaves and grass, but with the illuminated dot, it is much easier to see.
In Africa where hunting is only done in day light or with big kickers ,then I will have to listen to the experts and go with a standard scope.

For near dark shots an illuminated reticule is a god send at times. With modern designs even if the battery goes flat or the illumination feature fails, it just reverts back to an ordinary scope so I fail to see the issue with them.

For all the people who think their Leupolds are "good enough" thats fine with me, use what you are happy with.

If anybody is interested, Meopta are now making some lower power variables with or with out the illuminated reticules and they are priced pretty much the same as Leupold. They have decent eye relief and the optics are excellant. The only down side to them I can see is that they only have a 10 year garrenty...

Regards,

Pete

Johann,
Not a particularly bold statement in my mind... because I don't put that much emphasis on high dollar scopes, when our good Leupold, Nikon and Burris scopes will do the same job for a lot less money, and in fact in a recent magazine test, the Nikon beat them all for clarity..I've never owned a NIkon but intend to correct that soon..lots of good words about them and they are holding up well...

I think European scopes are over priced in the USA, and I don't see the quality is one bit different than our better scopes..the European scopes are too heavy and too bulky in my opinion...most have short eye releaf..

Most of the cost is in importation and if I lived in Europe I would find one I liked and use it, as I am sure they are much cheaper over their.....

Keep in mind that,at least to me a weather proof scope with cross hairs is about all I require, I put the x on them and pull the trigger, and I don't get caught up in all that other hype that serves little purpose in the hunting fields.

I don't hunt much at night as Europeans do, and when I do its not for anything that makes much difference if I see it or not. If I shoot a Leopard at night then the torch light is plenty for every instance I have seen..I have seen too many Safaris made where Leopards and Lions were shot at night with Weaver K2.5s to get too excited over a $1000 scope..Most PHs use even cheaper scopes than I do and they seem to get by just fine.

I do prefer the European quality in binoculars if that makes you feel any better and I am a firm believer in Leica binocs...

By the same token I don't like a cheap scope like a Tasco, Bushnell and several others..The Leupolds with a standard duplex are my favorite and can't be improved on IMO..I like the tapered crosshair pretty well and I like the Leupold dot quite well...I have no use for 30MM scopes as they only add bulk.

The quality of the European scopes is excellent, probably the best, but its overkill IMO and that $600 to $1000 price tag leaves me cold..Heck, I still buy the Leupold variX-2's over the expensive Leupold varix-3, another rip off in my books, and priced for those who believe the most expensive equipment is the best. sometimes it doesn't hurt to go first class, sometimes there is a sucker born every minute..

That's my boldest explanation, and I sure don't hold it against any one who wants a high dollar scope, be it European or American made, its their money and their choice.

Like I said, most PHs don't like illuminated reticles, I didn't say anything about their personal use. Go to the African-hunter.com website where I believe a few of the gents who als post here have written about it. jorge

Here's the post at African Hunter: African Hunter Forum

Jorge, I don't mean to be argumentative, but when you say "most PH's", I just wonder how you would know that. The PH's I hunted with didn't complain, far from it. And not being scope people themselves, I wouldn't let this totally dictate the decision one way or another. Again, I say this with no disrespect meant, and I hope it is not taken as such.