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Originally posted by IanF:
Terrifying reading & yes, it is an article in the media and to be treated accordingly.

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Originally posted by joester:
To answer one of Russ' initial questions re: buying land in Africa...Yes, I would get bored hunting in the same place...At this point I am collecting countries visited rather than trophies collected.

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Originally posted by fairgame:

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Originally posted by joester:
To answer one of Russ' initial questions re: buying land in Africa...Yes, I would get bored hunting in the same place...At this point I am collecting countries visited rather than trophies collected.

Disagree mate and it is the pride you place on the land and how you nurture it and how the entire ecosystem responds.

Hunting? You will spend all your time anti poaching mate .

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Originally posted by shakari:

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Originally posted by fairgame:

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Originally posted by joester:
To answer one of Russ' initial questions re: buying land in Africa...Yes, I would get bored hunting in the same place...At this point I am collecting countries visited rather than trophies collected.

Disagree mate and it is the pride you place on the land and how you nurture it and how the entire ecosystem responds.

Hunting? You will spend all your time anti poaching mate .

And:

Supervising staff

Settling disputes

Fixing roads

Fixing fences

Maintaining/replacing vehicles and equipment

Arguing with Govt

Waiting on SAPS and/or game depts to do their jobs

Replacing equipment that has been lost/damaged

Worrying about the staff screwing you, finances, game populations, crime, clients & marketing

I'm sure I've missed a few things but that probably gives a bit of an idea about how much hard work it is to own a hunting operation.

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Originally posted by fairgame:
Have you stocked that stream yet mate? Reserve me a plot.

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Originally posted by shakari:

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Originally posted by fairgame:
Have you stocked that stream yet mate? Reserve me a plot.

The rivers & lakes here don't need stocking my friend & what's more, we don't need to look out for black/pink noses that may or may not be half healed scratches from fighting or have X-Ray eyes to assess teeth rings that may or may not be disproved and/or going out of vogue or skull measurements or look for shoal status or even listen to & obey unquestioningly people who may or may not be experts and/or may or may not say whatever they're paid to say or might possibly give them the best return.

All we need is a rod & a E10 licence for the year......... oh and a boat (which I have) is a bonus!

We should be finished building by December or so & you & yours will be very welcome to come & fish for a while any time after that!

Might even be able to find a bit of shooting/stalking for you as well.

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Originally posted by Russ Gould:
I can relate to that ... I have never hunted seriously on any property I have owned ... a bit like murdering the neighbors. But anti-poaching, PAC, culling, now that is something I can do ad nauseam without the nauseam part.

The day to day management headaches would obviously need to be handled by a local partner or hired hand. The investors can't do all that stuff from across the ocean. If the property is big enough, the budget should sustain a professional manager who could also be a local investor.

The part I can't sort out in my head is how to allocate the available quotas, assuming these can be determined and respected. There would be some tension between the need to have some paying hunters (to provide the funds to operate the property), and the desire of the investors to hunt for free. It seems to me that even the investors would need to pay something for hunts. If hunting were free, there would be squabbles over equitable shares, who gets to hunt the best months etc etc.

So my instinct is to operate such a venture as a money making concern, so everyone pays a market-based fee to use the property. At the end of the year, if there is a cash surplus that we don't need to reinvest, then the investors get a dividend. Those that hunted can view this dividend as a partial rebate of the cost of their hunt. Those that did not hunt are entitled to their share of the surplus. Thuse there would be no "use it or lose it" situation, investors would not feel obligated to hunt every year, or ever for that matter.

Unfortunately this model would not be tax-efficient. From a tax perspective, the investors would want to hunt for free or at a discount rather than receive a taxable dividend. So I suppose a hybrid would be the best compromise ... investors pay 70% of the "rack rate" on daily rates and trophy fees. This % can be adjusted from time to time according to the surpluses or deficits realized/anticipated. The best slots and the sought after quota would still be a problem. Maybe for those high demand months and desirable species, the discount would not apply.

Anyone have experience with this situation? Timeshares are similar but not identical because they don't have to deal with trophy fees and quotas.

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Originally posted by els:
I would LOVE to own some property in Africa and I just love Africa and Africans, having been raised in area's that were mostly African American.
That said, in the African culture, whether it is in Detroit or Harare the idea, philosophy, law of individual ownership of property DOES NOT EXIST. The whole concept of self ownership and the ownership of property is based on the the Philosophy of John Locke. That concept has never ever penetrated the African Mind and is not going to in our life times. Buy property at your own risk in Africa or Detroit or Chicago !!!

Also even if you send an African to the White House of America he is not going to be able to grasp the idea of non-tribalism, self ownership, personal responsibility and the ownership of property any more that if he lived his entire life in the Kalahari.

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Originally posted by els:
I would LOVE to own some property in Africa and I just love Africa and Africans, having been raised in area's that were mostly African American.
That said, in the African culture, whether it is in Detroit or Harare the idea, philosophy, law of individual ownership of property DOES NOT EXIST. The whole concept of self ownership and the ownership of property is based on the the Philosophy of John Locke. That concept has never ever penetrated the African Mind and is not going to in our life times. Buy property at your own risk in Africa or Detroit or Chicago !!!

Also even if you send an African to the White House of America he is not going to be able to grasp the idea of non-tribalism, self ownership, personal responsibility and the ownership of property any more that if he lived his entire life in the Kalahari.

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Originally posted by Molepolole: Sorry, Steve, but you can't just say "bullshit" and then walk away without giving an explanation of your comment. Also, sorry that my post sounds like it belongs more on the Political Forum than the African Big Game Hunting forum.

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Originally posted by shakari:

Perhaps you need to explain that to Mad Bob Mugabe who for years has been concentrating his attention on removing all ownership from whites (without compensation) and giving it to selected blacks.

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Originally posted by tendrams:
Almost bought a small plot in Marloth Park a couple years back when the Rand had tanked. It was cheap enough that I still regret not doing it. One bullet I dodged was in late 2010 when I had a 30% cash down payment ready to throw down on a nice apartment in Cairo. Thankfully, the money was not in the bank when SHTF and we waltzed out of Cairo loaded on Feb 4. The developer of the Apts went to jail in the post Mubarak era for "coruption" and I still see not a lick of work being done on them since. Bought retirement property in Greece in stead .