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| One of Us |
Hi gentlemen, what do you think about this deal? Petr http://www.huntlogic.com/wp-co...Rough-Hunts-2012.pdf | ||
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I'm having trouble figuring out why anyone would want to go on this trip. You start out with a lower daily rate and give up alot of creature comforts and food. So far so good. I understand there is no such thing as free and would be willing to give up some of the amenities in return for a lower rate. However, if I understand this correctly, as soon as I pull the trigger on my primary animal, which is the reason for the hunt, I'll be on the hook for the normal full fare without any of the amenities that I've given up. Doesn't make much sense for the hunter. If you're going to market a "rough it" hunt, market it as such and charge accordingly. You can't sell a cheaper hunt then mark it up to normal prices as soon as the hunter pulls the trigger. Maybe I'm missing something, but there sure doesn't seem to be anything in this offer for the hunter. Why don't you just make it simple and charge a lower daily rate and a higher trophy fee? The end result would be the same. Tom Z NRA Life Member | |||
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what labman said ! | |||
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I would love to do a hunt like this if the price was set accordingly. Charge me a lower daily rate, then charge me at regular trophy fee prices only for what I shoot. I just can't see the value in this hunt. You can borrow money, but you can't borrow time. Don't wait, go now. Savannah Safaris Namibia Otjitambi Trails & Safaris DRSS NRA SCI DSC TSRA TMPA | |||
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Looks like premium prices for not so premium services. | |||
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I didn't see anything that would warrant the total fees. | |||
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Not only no but HELL NO! What a friggin scam. | |||
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So let me get this straight - a typical Lion hunt in a good area, lets say in Zambia's Luangwa Valley, will run you at around $2000 per day minimum for 18 to 21 days - and then if your PH is worth his salt you SHOULD be able to shoot a MATURE Lion - NOT one of the so called 'maneless' gene Lions the Luangwa has suddenly become known for. What if you don't shoot a Lion do you get your day fee back?? No way in hell - but you still stay in a grass thatched camp and maybe hunt with a half baked PH? If you have the ethic not to shoot a young lion after paying the $2000 per day for 18 or 21 days and leave it alone, then you are indeed out of pocket for a day fee of $36,000 as opposed to $18,000! This is called a rip off???? seriously????????? What does it say for ethics and conservation - it gives you the ability to use your own judgement and not be tempted by the loss of the HUGE daily fee you already paid up front AND NOT pull the trigger on that little lion that appears at your bait and gets bigger and bigger by the day as your safari nears to an end. Personally this is how all safaris should be sold - and did you see the quality of Lion taken on the website? certainly not one of the little maneless varieties? spell check enabled! | |||
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Yea, it's a rip off. Seriously! If you think it's so good, then you go. | |||
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The truth about ethics doth hurt a little does it not - principal is a special thing - reserved for the few! When money is involved - no ethic is present my friend! spell check enabled! | |||
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this fee structure makes no sense at all. you rough it for 18 days, then if you are successful on day 18, you pay the full rate?? why not just pay the full rate up front and enjoy some creature comforts. unless you think you won't succeed and just want to spend 18 days trying under rough conditions, i don't get it. if the 2 areas have about the same success rate, you are screwing yourself. and Ms. Buckingham, you might want to correct the spelling on wandered in your tag line- it's wondered. Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… | |||
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Thanks for the spell check - appreciate it sir - wander means to roam freely - without high day fees! spell check enabled! | |||
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I'd expect more from a $750/day plains game hunt. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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It might make more semse if all trophy fees for the "lesser animals" were thrown in if you harvested the "upper tier" animal. | |||
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Come on REALLY?? This might have flyed 15-20 years ago but the days of the nieve hunter is basically a lost soul today. The only part of this hunt that is rough is the corn cob without vaseline! jeff~ jeff haugland | |||
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You even get told how much you have to tip.first time I've seen that | |||
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Not the first time I've seen this in regards to tips. The "suggested" tips for one hunt I looked at ranged to a high of 30% of the cost of the hunt. It seems some outfitters are now unabashedly acknowledging just how much they underpay their staff, and expect the client to make up the difference.JMO. | |||
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$750/day to wander around on a rough plains game hunt seems like a high fee to me- considering you can do something similar in the Save for $450-500/day with comfort. try again, you are not convincing anyone that this offer is anything but a proper fleecing. Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… | |||
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I'll PASS! | |||
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it there an english proessor in the house we all needs spelsn leasons.!!!!  wanker | |||
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With a handle like Benton Fuckingham what would you expect | |||
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I see this as a combination of a pricing enticement or an outfit that wants to provide the cheapest camp possible if you are not successful and clean up the profits if the primary animal is taken (or both). Kind of like a gent I know in Zim who advertises "trophy fee only" hunts but the trophy fees are greatly increased. I see troubles in not knowing how much cash to bring to camp, having each hunter go food shopping upon his arrival in the country, being forced (or fleeced) into tipping the staff (probably the outfitter does not pay them much--or at all), being pushed into taking a sub-standard prime animal, and (not last) those tents don't look like classic safari tents to me! If anyone goes on this hunt, write a report to clear this up. Don't worry about spelling or typos, many here will bring it to your attention to edit! lol It would be nice to hear the PHs and outfitters side of this story. Cheers, all Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Well I see I upset allot of the Eagle crowd with a pure mathematical proposition, $18K is FAR greater than lets say $36K on this site! (and YES if you have nothing else to harp on about a spelling mistake from a pommy! I give you that!) but I still think you have all jumped on this in the wrong way! Now I don't profess to be the ultimate authority on Africa - that is reserved for you folk BUT I have been there a couple of times - lets say my father was an working diplomat in a few of the real African countries, I did some hunting with him, so I do know my way around Harare, Lilongwe (that's in Malawi for the Eagle crowd), Lusaka, Maun, and of course the southern sector of Africa know to most as Johannesburg or Pretoria! I guess what I am seeing in the replies to this outfitters offer is disdain for losing the 'frills' or as someone put it, the home comforts! It points to two things in my mind (and please chaps - this is not an assault on you personally!): firstly the expectations of a hunt are skewed to the side of the operator providing a Luxury camp - what happened to hunting? We get upset about the fact that they might not have a bit of ice in camp ( I have visited that fair US and know your preoccupation with ice - seriously you guys love your ice!) Secondly, it is an assault on the way safari is traditionally conducted - it is new, it is fresh and it is - once tested and understood, I believe a great way to offer a hunt. Let them prove themselves - give them that at least, before everyone charges off and yells - Rippoooooooooooffffffffff! Is this operator not offering something which MIGHT be different to the norm - are y'all the ultimate authority on Africa? Did they not disclose ALL the facts? I see many presumptions based upon the old style expectations - like a full luxury camp and ice and paying the staff a tip (actually if truth be told such clauses are for us Euro's, we don't believe in tipping and get offended by it, I assume this is why they have it in there!) Now here's the question I will ask AGAIN - perhaps my spelling threw y'all - I am a poor fellow, yet have dreamed of a Lion hunt in particular so I am faced with a NON refundable day fee starting at $2000 per day - I'm talking lower end prime areas here like Luangwa region? and I am told I have to pay $36,000 for day fees non refundable, 18 days? If I shoot a lion then I pay an extra $6500 or so trophy fee, and then I have to shoot bait at a couple of K's extra - so lets put the figure without the lion at $40K shall we - because I've done my research and this is what it will cost with no refund, $40K or so forget the other extras. Now, I get an offer to pay $18K, and yes I have to make sure I don't want ice, or a bottle of French wine each night, and yes I have to sleep in a tent that may not look like the 5 star lodges in South Africa, and perhaps I have to crap behind a tree once in a while, but I will sure as hell enjoy the aspect of a true hunt and end up paying the same when I do shoot a big Lion. If I do not - I pay less and my conscious is clear. What I find the most appealing about this offer is this - while $18K is allot of money, it puts less pressure on me to shoot a sub standard trophy than if I was paying $40K - this is undeniable - if my PH refused me to shoot a 4-5 year old Lion then I'd feel better about the $18K - this makes sense to me? Does it not make sense to anyone else? Sorry but it makes perfect sense to me, I don't mean to upset anyone here, I think this is a great site, I just think that more outfitters should look at this way of selling safaris - pay for success - it makes the PH and outfitter work harder and know they will succeed because if they do not - they don't get the extra fees - makes sense to me? spell check enabled! | |||
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FB: Hunting is a gamble, not a guarantee; it often comes at a price. If you are looking at a low cost hunt (with or without the frills) and a high rate of success (which is basically a guarantee unless you screw up) then you ought to look at places where your old man spent some time, ie. Pretoria and Johannesburg where you can literally choose your lion from the available price lists with photos and skull measurements in the event you want recognition in the SCI records book - the outfitter who proposed you a rough hunt should also be prepared to keep it rough all the way and apply rates in proportion to what the hunt has cost him to outfit + a marginal profit. The story of "success" = payment of top dollar surcharges is BS. You want a taste of hunting the "good old fashioned way" as in the 30's ? Look at the option of doing a foot safari instead and not on the same ranch in SA but in a wilder part of this Dark Continent where you get dropped off with your entourage of porters and you foot it for the entire duration of the hunt camping at sunset, no ice, no cold beer, no perishables that require refrigeration, etc. for a fraction of what you have been quoted, with or without success on your lion. The only time you will see that Cruiser is when it drops you off and picks you up. | |||
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Thanks Fujotupu, Appreciate the help here, so do you know of anyone who can offer the true Walking safari without fences in an area where a lion of that size will be shot - I know there are true walking safaris but they are more expensive, even more than a full 5 star camp - or from what I have seen - they are on the typical nuances of a problem animal on the Botswana border - which I have tried and refused! It seems the Lion hunts nowadays are either canned or too expensive for the working fellow - which is why I joined this site, deals are good but there's too much negative stance so it puts me off booking. Thanks again - appreciate it - will look at the alternatives spell check enabled! | |||
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The bitterness of low quality (and cost) stays in the mouth much longer than the pain of high cost and a fantastic experience. Translation-- I'd rather save 1 or even 3 years longer and pay more and get an experience I will fondly remember for a lifetime. Sleeping in a tent, getting eaten alive by bugs, crapping behind a tree  and eating spam is not my idea of a fond experience no matter how good the hunting is! | |||
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While agree with Fenton B. that pressure is taken off the client to shoot a sub standard animal there will be pressure from the PH to do exactly that! He will clean up when the primary animal is taken--and from a crap hole of a camp at that! (I was going to use the term out house of a camp but realized at the moment the camp does not even have an out house) Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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In looking at this thread, it seems that this is not that great of a deal for the reason of the price is the same in the end if you have success. If you want to do this and use a rough camp, it would seem, to me that the daily rate and TF if successful should end up as less than the daily rate and TF for a conventional 5 star experience on the same concession. Now, I have trouble with this set up on several levels. First off, the justification of poorer service is written in- you are paying a cheap daily rate. If things go south, they are likely to justify it by the daily rate being a portion of the usual rates. Secondly, you WILL be pressured in to shooting sub par primary animals. PH- "I think that's a very good buffalo, should make 40" Bang. Well, my estimation is off, he's 32, but you pulled the trigger... Pay the 10K TF. You may feel you are confident in your trophy judgement- I have done some hunting over there, and while I can usually tell if something is mature, that's about it for buff and PG. Cats and Elephant? Only when I can sit and look at them for a while once they are dead. Also, what happens when you shoot and miss/wound an animal and they all claim you hit him, and now the TF is due? And pity the staff at one of these camps- paid a pittance, expect to make it up on tips, and the clients thinking this place has no amenities, why tip anyone? Also, what happens when the client decides to stiff the company for his TF's when you are operating on this basis? Anyone else have troubles with putting this kind of cash in the outfitters hands and expecting a refund in Africa? I don't think this structure will work well. | |||
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This is called a recipe for disaster, and when the disaster hits, the outfitter has all the excuses in the world. I have learnt a long time ago to never. ever, buy ANYTHING cheap. | |||
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Fellow hunters I am signed up for this hunt next June. The outfitter is a very reputable chap who is just getting established in Moz. He is the son of one of the most prestigious safari operators out of Zambia. He know what he is doing and is not a green horn. The concession he has acquired in the Tete area of central Mozambique has had little development and has not been a Safari area. This rough hunting thing was kinda my idea. I had jus returned from a Chase Libre in the Cameroon savanna. I told him that I think there is a market for that kinda hunt, especially from Europeans. They seem to like Classic walking safaris more then us lazy Americans who only have a week to bag the big five and won't stray too far from the Land Cruiser or a hot shower. He has very few roads on this property. 2012 is his second season on this property. He told me that he is taking time between hunts to explore the property on foot. I told him that I would love to come along, and gladly pay for it. It will all be on foot, with a small group of porters to pack the camp. We are going to walk 35 miles into the bush where some of the locals tell him there is a nice herd of buffalo. We will go investigate. I just need to remember to beat the floor of my back pack tent with a stick to chase out the snakes who like to hide under the tent floor at night. | |||
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Sounds like a Safari Bwana. Good luck with that and you will be in good hands. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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This is a hunt to my liking. Maybe the total price should be a little lower. I guess the expenses for the outfitter is lower on this hunt than the 5 star camp and this should also show on the bill to the client. But in the final end the market decides the pricing. Lets see how many of these hunts that will be "specials" at the end of the season. | |||
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Mominer, Please let us know who the outfitter is. I have been in contact with several folks I know that have been talking about such an operation. It remains to be seen if I would want to go, or avoid the operation all costs, depending on who is involved. | |||
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Gents, all hunts are conducted by Niassaland Safaris LDA. We own the long term lease and manage the property as well as another in the Niassa area (which is well appointed and more suited for you guys that require more amenities. )Our Tete property as well has a very nice tented camp with all the trappings of a proper safari camp if you so choose. One of the reasons we offer this style of hunt is to capture the real experience of walking the bush and hunting for the day as opposed to a specific species. What you encounter and what you shoot is up to you. Our goal is to offer a more wild, extreme version of a typical safari so that younger hunters might be more interested in getting involved in the sport. Not everyone wants or needs to have ice and a bed in the bush...in fact some people want just the opposite. Like Mominer! Our PH's bio's can be found on the web site and full testimonials provided to ensure your proper due diligence before booking with us. If you have any further questions feel free to pm me. | |||
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spell check enabled! | |||
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| one of us |
Why not offer the hunt at $300/day with plains game trophy fees? For a no frills clean it all yourself camp, that seems possible. If the customer shoots a Buffalo then the price goes to a DG hunt price, if the client shoots an elephant than it goes to the elephant rate, and the same for lion? Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Fjold, because there is a licensed PH, tracker, skinner, porters and govt. observer traveling with each hunter. These are all paid positions and for good reason. In all actuality these "rough hunts"are logistics heavy. Client safety is an ultimate concern as well as getting trophies back to camp and fresh water replenished while we continue to mosey along. This all takes a considerable effort in our team..and thus the suggested tip for our well respected crew. If anyone should require proper campaign furniture, linens, china, foie gras and Gin as Mr. Roosevelt did we can accommodate that as well...but the price will reflect that! We aim to create an experience more akin to what he might have endured. | |||
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The problem I think, as most here see it, is that the price is the same as the fully outfitted safari if the trigger is pulled on a DG animal. I understand the lower cost structure up to the point of shooting. But why does the total cost jump to the full price. Example: You rough hunt 4 days before pulling the trigger on a Buff. Now you are paying the pampered price for the remainder of the time spent without the pampering! That's the hang up. If you had a rough hunt day rate with an exaggerated TF that totaled something less than the fully outfitted price + TF, then you might have an idea. But to switch to the fully guided day rate once the trigger is pulled, without switching to the fully outfitted camp, is a problem. At least for me. I would like to do this type of hunt, but not with this price structure. Sorry. | |||
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Man.... a foot safari even for PG for a week or 10 days would be awesome. No targetted species but just pot luck in a wild area with little human contact! I wish I could do it. I would probably take my Mannlicher Schoenauer 9.5X57 with flip up diopter sight to add to the nostalgia! Dreams are free.... "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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