"embargo on all arms going to Zimbabwe" does this mean sporting arms are included or just military?



Britain push for arms embargo on Zim

April 23 2008 at 02:28PM

London - British Prime Minister Gordon Brown said on Wednesday he would put forward proposals for an embargo on all arms going to Zimbabwe.

Brown said the situation in Zimbabwe, where there is a tense political standoff in the absence of results from the March 29 presidential election, was "completely unacceptable".

"A message should be sent from the whole of the United Kingdom that what is happening in Zimbabwe - failing to announce an election result, trying to rig an election result - is completely unacceptable," Brown told parliament.

A Chinese ship carrying arms to Zimbabwe was turned away from South Africa last week after workers there refused to unload the weapons because of concerns that Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe's government might use them against his opponents.

Other neighbouring countries refused to let the vessel dock.

"Because of what has happened in South Africa ... we will promote proposals for an embargo on all arms to Zimbabwe," Brown said, giving no further details.

Zimbabwe is among the issues due to be discussed by European Union foreign ministers at a meeting in Luxembourg next week.

Opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai says he won the presidential poll. The ruling Zanu-PF lost its parliamentary majority in a parallel election, but a recount is underway in 23 constituencies.

Brown urged all African nations and the international community to "make their views known about the unfairness of this election".

(Reporting by Kate Kelland. Editing by Matthew Tostevin)

Military arms and ammo being shipped from foreign countries is my assumption.

John

Given the way some EU countries view they current restrictions, I am somewhat concerned that they will include all arms. Hopefully I am wrong.

Would assume not to include sporting arms (does England not block these already by not allowing passengers to ticket to Zim?)...but always be ready with Plan-B!

And there are other countries propping up Mugabe's gov't right now, I read of a German firm that produces all the paper currency for them, which was handed out during the "election" to supporters.

It's actually meaningless to hunters. There's already an embargo on sporting firearms travelling from the UK to Zim and commercial airlines are forbidden to carry any other firearms etc that are NOT classified as sporting firearms anyway.

All he's saying is that he will make sure no firearms or ammo of any kind will travel from the UK to Zim by other means such as ships..... as Zim is landlocked, the shipment(s) would have to travel to a neighbouring country anyway so it means the Government will have to check all consignemnts of firearms and ammo exiting the UK......... and they do that anyway.

So all in all, the PMs statement is typical of most of his statements........ absolute bollocks!

If he wants to send a message to Mr Mugabe et al, I reckon it'd be much more effective if he sent a bunch of UN peacekeepers to deliver it by hand.........

quote:

It's actually meaningless to hunters. There's already an embargo on sporting firearms travelling from the UK to Zim and commercial airlines are forbidden to carry any other firearms etc that are NOT classified as sporting firearms anyway.

Well, I read it as a call for a global embargo, so if it were an extension of the existing one world wide then all sporting arms would be blocked regardless of carrier or country of origin.

As I said above, hopefully I am wrong. Better yet, hopefully the situation gets sorted out and no embargo is needed from anywhere.

china has a shipload destined for zim. everybody else is trying to stop it.

Charles,

I can't see that being much use anyway as those countries such as USA, UK & Europe that don't support Zim now wouldn't allow military arms to be shipped and those that do support Zim, such as China would ignore the embargo anyway.....

Mr Brown's time would be much better spent if he directed it towards those British companies that do support the Mugabe regime financially. Try doing a google search on Barclays Bank and Robert Mugabe and you'll find they're supporting him to the tune of UK£50 M a year.

The reason I was asking this was in the April 2008 issue of the Hunting Report it states that "the UK arms embargo I have told you about in the past is now being honored by members of the European Union. This means you cannot transit a UK or EU gateway with a gun showing Zimbabwe as your final destination".

After reading the article I was wondering if the intent was to make the embargo worldwide instead of just the EU.

Thanks for all your comments.

Steve,

I believe the present British embargo is actually the UK enacting our part of a wider EU embargo, which is still in place...

However when our Government drafted our version it included sporting firearms, where as most other EU members states allow these through...

If Brown manages to get the EU to close this loop hole, it could have quite a significant effect for international hunters going to Zim, especially Americans...

Regards,

Pete

Pete,

I wasn't aware of that....... I think the bigger threat to US citizens if Mugabe manages to hang onto power, is that the US Governemt may possibly forbid their citizens to travel to Zimbabwe. - Sure, they can still travel to RSA and then re-check in there for a flight to Zim, but then one must ask what the penalties will be if they're caught or get into any trouble whilst in the country.

I should point out that this idea isn't mine and I don't support it in any way, but the possibility has been mentioned on the forums before. Personally, I find it appalling that any country should be able to forbid it's citizens from visiting any country.

I'd be suprised if Brown could close a door, let alone a loophole!

BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING!

Shakiri,

The US government does not prohibit US citizens from traveling to any country, this would be a violation of our Constitution. Instead they prohibit the spending of any money or the generation of any commerce in that country, which has the same effect.

When "travel permits" are spoken of regarding, say, Cuba, it is really a permit to spend money, and it is issued by the Treasury Dept.

I'm sure that if a ban is coming for Zim, it will take the same form. One can skirt these bans, its been successfully done for years for Cuba. Cuba will facilitate by not stamping your passport. But the Gov't is using additional means to make it riskier. For example, the question upon arrival, at least by boat, in US port of entry is answered under oath and now requires a listing of all countries visited following departure from the US.

JPK

I don't know…I could be terribly naïve here, and/or just in way too good of a mood, but I think the US Gov't knows exactly what is going on in Zim. Did anybody else read how light the 4/11/08 US Travel Alert was? Even if Mugabe retains power, the handwriting is on the wall. The "west" is not going to let China walk away w/Zim and realizes that by allowing citizens to continue to hunt/travel there, they are helping to retain a nucleus that can be built upon when conditions change, which they will. There will be some more bumps on the road, but we as hunters can almost always make a plan. I can't wait for my August tuskless/sable hunt!

Now how's that for happy thoughts!

I have an ele booked there myself for 2009! As I see it the big problem hunting there is getting your trophies back into the States..if there is a problem!

quote:

Originally posted by Kathi:
"embargo on all arms going to Zimbabwe" does this mean sporting arms are included or just military?

...

London - British Prime Minister Gordon Brown said on Wednesday he would put forward proposals for an embargo on all arms going to Zimbabwe.

Never forget anti-gunners will take whatever opportunities they get. The UK already embargoes sporting arms to Zim so it is not clear what he is pushing at all.

The phone answer from the US Embassy - no, ban called for applies only to military weapons.

Also, ban is irrelevant if Moz, SA or Namibia will not enforce it.

I do not see this having any impact on hunting in Zimbabwe. Bigger issues revolve arround fuel, supplies and shipping the trophies.

Kathi, thank you for reminding us that we need to be alert travelers since there is an active UK and EU embargo already in place, and that this current political move would simply widen it. I found out the hard way that you can become a victim of these circumstances by accident. Example: You have no plans to go to the EU or UK, just to Zimbabwe for a hunt. Then your airline carrier runs late and now you've missed your connection down the line. Now you're in a remote east coast US airport running around the terminal trying to find a ticket agent to put you on some alternate flight to Johannesburg so you can continue your trip. In the rush the unseasoned agent puts you on their company's flight through London to Joburg.

Without you realizing the consequences, you are now holding a ticket which dooms you to have your gun confiscated. As you arrive in London you are called over the P.A. system on board the plane and you are told to meet customs officials as soon as you set foot on Brittish pavement. They take you aside and inform you that your gun will remain in London until you come back to London to pick it up and take it to the U.S. You will tell them you had no intention of coming to London and that you have no intention to come back later. Now they will inform you that the discussion is over. You protest to the carrier, but they have no authority to act and less interest in responding to you. This was my experience on United. Don't let them do this to you. Avoid the EU no matter what "quick-fix" ticket the airline come up with. Thanks. Bill

As others have suggested, I believe the intent is focussed on military arms. One way it might play out for hunters is if departing from a country participating in the ban, hunters may have to obtain export permits for their firearms that declare them as sporting arms.

Worst case this is a back-door way to prevent hunters going to Zim...with their own guns at least.

Extrapolating from the current UK procedure, which prohibits ANY firearms to Zim, sporting or otherwise, I think they mean ANY.

I thought if you were just transiting through LHR you could avoid this but apparently not, given the experience of one poster above.

Now you can fly to JNB and book from there, but if they want to they can look in your passport and put 2 and 2 together..

Frankly, if that's the price of getting rid of Mugabe, it's a deal.