Folks,

At the request of PHASA, - would those of you who have encountered any problems whatsoever with importation of firearms, bows or other hunting related equipment since 1st July 2004 please tell me about it by e-mail (NOT PMs) or post your experiences here. – Please bear in mind that we can only use first hand accounts.

Also any of you who have decided not to hunt SA due to the new firearms laws are also invited to send me an e-mail telling me so and how much you would have expected to spend here had you decided to hunt SA.

This information will be passed onto the SA Government in an attempt to improve the situation. - The more comments we get from the forum members the more help it might be to help get the new firearms laws reviewed.....

PHASA has asked me to try to keep this active for 7 days from time of posting.

I’d also like to say a big public Thank You to our kind host for allowing this survey and your kind selves for replying to it.

Steve, email sent.

Steve - I don't know if they are interested in this as it does not directly pertain to the outfitters, but I made a cognizant effort to avoid overnighting in Joburg because of the new regulations.

email sent

Bill,

The more information we have the better. The idea of this survey is to ascertain how much inconvenience the visiting hunters are suffering and how much hard currency income is being lost to SA as a result of the new laws. That includes money spent in hotels, lodges, car hire & airlines etc.

Presumably you would previously have opted to travel SAA and use JIA as a hub to moving on elsewhere in Africa and now spend your dollars on travelling with other national carriers and spending the money with them instead?

Steve,

Email sent!

Steve - July of '04, while enroute to Zim, we opted to lay over in the airport (for 8 hours) rather than overnight at the Afton House due to the new regs. Next month I will fly into JBurg for a plains game hunt in RSA. If I find the hassle too much to bear (as some here have alluded to), it will be my last hunt in RSA. I have another hunt booked in Zim next year and my experience next month will determine whether of not I overnight in RSA.

quote:

Presumably you would previously have opted to travel SAA and use JIA as a hub to moving on elsewhere in Africa...?

Steve, yes, in this particular case I cancelled flights that would have had me staying in Joburg overnight (Afton House) instead of Lusaka prior my flight into the bush. I did fly SAA, but made it a point to connect-through SA. Ditto w/the upcoming hunt to Zim.

Steve: My hunting partner went to RSA 5 years ago, and had a great time. Two years ago, it was nothing but headaches and trouble from the gitgo. Because of his negative experiences, I deliberately booked my 3 week trip to Namibia instead of RSA. Put my son/daughter-in-law on their plane to Namibia this morning for the very same reason. Email sent.

Steve,

I am in the planning stages of a trip to Namibia, because of all the horror stories I have read on this board, I am going to fly direct to Windhoek or do a direct transfer in SA without staying overnight. Also, one of the reasons I chose Namibia over RSA is all the red tape involved in hunting RSA.

email sent to info@kuduland.com

Because of what i have read and heard from other
hunters I am going to Tanzania and Namibia my next trips and use British Air all the way.
Gene

Steve,
Email sent.

Steve,

In august 2004 we overnighted in Joberg and had to endure the new gun policy of South Africa. Even though we used optima expediters our over all experience was negative. Next time we will fly from europe direct to our destination and wont pass through South Africa.

I had a very negative experience ... quite a hassle indeed in July/04 bringing in my guns to Johannesburg. I was on my way to Namibia and decided to visit a friend for a few days .. In about a month I'll be back in Southern Africa for 6 weeks again .. but I shan't spend any of that currency in South Africa .. The thousands of dollars in hard currency will go to the good folks of Namibia .. And the same will happen in 2006 etc. until they make the laws more friendly to big game hunters ...

Steve,

E mail sent..........JJ

Steve
I am leaving for Nambiba on tues next week. I booked this hunt 4 months ago. I am flying direct to Nambia.I have decide to avoid the overnight in joe-burg because of the BS.Not counting air fair I will spend about 10,000.
JD

Steve,

Like several other posters, I booked a hunt in Namibia instead of RSA. The gun laws were a factor in the decision. Further, I'll likely pay the extra cash it will take to fly directly to and from Windhoek instead of going through RSA.

Dean

Like Bill C and others, When I went to Zim last month, I instructed my flight consolidator to make sure that any flights through RSA were connected on that same day so as to avoid the nightmare of registering firearms in RSA.

I will not hunt in RSA unless, or until, the other countries in the region make firearms importation just as onerous. Then, I might just quite hunting Africa all together!

I have been in Joberg airport twice and never had any problem...I believe the problem is with know it alls...My travel agent gave all all necessary forms required...and that was for both RSA and Zim...
The problem and nightmare is when someone up in the front and does not have forms filled out and illegal guns and whatever they can bring in illegally...My last trip two good old boys did as I mentioned...They held up 11 fellow hunters with all paperwork and ammo and rifles for almost 2 hours...
I was next in line and wanted to put them out of misery...I was not the only one who felt that way...When I finally got in with my son were in there all of 10 minutes...
I think that any one with mistakes in the paperwork should be made to wait till last to be cleared...

Mike

Retreever,
Amen to that, brother, and anyone who is attempting to do something illegal should just be put back on the plane.

Playing devils advocate ...

Would the system used as in Zambia be the answer wherby the permit is arranged in advance by the Outfitter, would that solve most of the hassles ???

If so please voice your opinion ....

Personally I believe that option might solve a lot of the problems associated with DIY hunters whom jump on the plane armed with a rifle and expect life to be easy when they arrive @ JIA.

Maybe (as some suggest) the blame might NOT all be associated with the (overloaded) authorities at JIA whom could be the meat in the sandwich in some instances. The authorities would proberbly get the hunters with rifles through much quicker if all had their paper work 100% correct upon arrival

Another IMPORTANT and not tooooooooo difficult logistic issue MIGHT be if SAA or whomever had some (common sense !!!) approach whereby they could pre-warn or FLAG the authorities at JIA that a particular flight arriving would have 10 / 20 / 100 hunters on board with rifles to clear, or am I not thinking straight to expect that simple task to be addressed and staff made avilable to process them more efficiently !!!

Peter

Gentlemen,

The idea of this thread is that it serve as a survey for hunters who have either had trouble with with firearms imports or who have been put off of hunting SA due the the new firearms laws. - It's not to discuss "what if's"

PHASA have a meeting scheduled with government later this month and we want to use this thread as part of our eforts to show them how much foreign income is being lost to SA due to the new firearms laws - The higher the number of hunters who tell us won't hunt SA until the laws are changed & how much they are spending elsewhere the more help it will be.

If there are any agents or outfitters etc out there who have noticed a decline in their SA bookings due to the new laws, their comments and evaluations of financial losses to the SA tourism industry would also be useful.

C'mon guys, read the between the lines!

Any needless discussion about "what if" will just hinder PHASA's efforts.

Thanks.

Steve,
I did a cut and paste of my first letter to you and put it in a reply of your e mail to me.
Maybe you will get it this time.
Thanks for doing this.
Mims

Harry,

Thanks it arrived this time.- PHASA need as many responses to this as possible so that they can show the Government how many hunters are opting to hunt elsewhere and how much foreign income is being lost.......this of course would included monies that would have been spent with airlines, lodges, taxidermists & shipping agents etc - so the more replies we get the better.....

steve,

You did receice my email? Just checking, I just want to make sure.
I would really like to hunt SA one day but not as things with the gun regs., are now.... I will hunt else where!!!!!!

Yes. it arrived thanks. As each e-mail come in I'm forwarding it to PHASA and then at the end of the week I'll also copy & paste the entire thread and mail that to them as well.

Hopefully it'll have some effect.

Last July I hunted for the last time in SA. I had all the forms properly filled out and waited nearly 4 hours to be processed. The only reason it happened that quickly was because I got sick and tired of people tipping porters and moving to the front of the line. I bitched to the cop and miraculously was next. That caused me to miss my connecting flight to Polokwane. I spent 6 hours then waiting for the next connecting flight. SAA cancelled my return from Polokwane since I was not on my original booked flight. Upon return I was told although we called 72 hours in advance I was cancelled from my Polokwane to Jo"berg flight. Got that staightened out 5 hours later and got to Joberg just in time to see my flight home leaving. I then had the pleasure of an additional overnight in Jo'berg and got home a day late. I won't even discuss the problems that created with dogs in kennels and so forth. I have seen SA for the last time!

None of my clients have had major hassles, but I have a few safaris coming up over the next few months, and I am indeed nervous that there could be delays.
All I can do is to e-mail the link to PHASA's site to my clients, we both spend endless hours on analysis paralysis on what is expected, and then we hope the guidance on the PHASA site is still relevant - is it????
Lochi.

I was in RSA from 24 Apr 2005 to 9 May 2005. I had issues both at entry and on domestic flights within RSA.

I arranged for help with my firearms import permits through Louis at Afton House. All paperwork was completed and submitted to him a month in advance. He did his part by going to the local police station and arranging for my permits. Louis confirmed that all was ready and we should just breeze through incoming inspection.

Then the rules changed. Effective some recent date the airport police would not accept the permits issued from the police station in the city. Luckily I brought copies of all paperwork with me so the only thing required was to have the gun serial numbers checked, sign my forms in presence of the airport people, and then have them fill out their own permit forms which I carried with me when I had the guns. Nevertheless we still waited in queue for almost two hours as the airport police processed everyone ahead of me. I wasn't racing to make a connection so it was inconvenient but not fatal to my travel plans. Still, numerous procedural changes could be made with little cost to speed the process up.

I had domestic flights in RSA on various dates from JNB to KIM, KIM to JNB, JNB to DUR, and PZB to JNB. Every airport did something different. The process of checking in the firearms included inspecting my firearms permit, gun serials, flight tickets, and noting all of this in a logbook. The firearm case was always taken at check in. This seemed fairly consistent.

What they did with ammunition was just plain strange. On domestic flights the ammunition had to be in its own locked piece of luggage - not packed inside a suitcase. I used a small tackle box for this. It was packed inside my suitcase for international flights entering and leaving RSA, which was alright with everyone. The idea seemed to be to give ammunition special handling domestically. Sometimes the tackle box was wrapped in a plastic bag and delivered straight to the cockpit or packed in a compartment at the front of the cabin. Other times the tackle box got a ribbon around its handle and rode in the cargo compartment with the other baggage. One time at JNB it went to Grays Security with the rifle case, another time I found it on a baggage carousel (not the same one our luggage came in on) all by itself. That part of the operation seemed to be a crap-shoot.

For all of the concern about handling my ammunition, the collective baggage personnel managed to demolish the tackle box. By the time I checked luggage for the flight to the US (where the tackle box could be packed inside a suitcase), the tackle box was held together with wire and duct tape. The poor little fellow had survived numerous backpack, horseback, and raft trips, but the RSA baggage handlers finished it off.

I have spent enough time dealing with low-level official types to know that the easiest way to go is to follow the rules as closely as possible. In this case the hard part was figuring out what the local official was going to require next.

I wouldn't say this experience has totally put me off flying with firearms in RSA, but I will probably fly less, drive more, and avoid JNB where possible in the future. I was last in RSA in Sep 2002, and remember it was much less confusing on that trip.

This rant became wordier than I expected, so I will also email it to you as a word document. Likely it will be easier to handle in that form. Feel free to contact me here or via email if you need clarification.

Gentlemen,

Just to thank all of you who posted on, or e-mailed me on this. Your help is greatly appreciated and I have passed all the info onto PHASA....Let's all hope it helps to make a difference of some kind.

Steve,

I have always been deeply suspicious of hunting in South Africa because there are so many con men operating there, and the rate of violent crime is the highest in all of Africa. The firearms regulations are just another nail in the coffin.