What is the smallest caliber that is legal for hunting Cape Buffalo?

Thanks for the help...X

.366" as in 9.3x62 or 9.3x64, followed by the .375" as in .375H&H, .375 Weatherby, .375 Dakota, et al.

George

Thanks George. Does this vary by country or is this pretty much standard for the entire continent?

X

In Zimbabwe the minimum bore diameter is 9.2mm with a minimum muzzle energy of 5.3 KJoules which is 3900+ ftlbs of energy.

As an example, a 300gr bullet with a muzzle velocity of 2425 fps yields about 3920 ftlbs of energy.......a 400gr bullets with a muzzle velocity of 2100 fps provides the same amount of muzzle energy.

X,

The laws vary from country to country, but generally they look something like Zimbabwe's game schedule.

Hunting on private land (game farms or game ranches) is usually, but not always, outside the game laws.

I know someone hunting Cape buff with her .338 WM even as we speak.

jim dodd

The 9.3x62 with good handload will get you by in most countries of Africa, except for a couple of provinces in RSA that state flatly 375 H&H...

However, I have never seen any caliber questioned in Africa by authorties, never once, but who knows when that can change...Lots of lady and youthfull clients use 9.3x62, 9.3 doubles in Tanzania without question, even 338's and whatever else. I suppose because they are backed by PH's with 375s or larger.

Thanks for the information guys.

Sounds like the .375 H&H would be the most logical choice. Can a .375 H&H be built from a Remington 700 long action?

One more question. What exactly is controlled round feeding? How does it work? I don't know that I've ever seen a CRF rifle. Is CRF necessary for the "occasional" DG hunter?

Thanks for the help...

X

x-calibre,

Find yourelf a 9,3x74 double rifle. A chapuis will run you under $5K.

Best Regards,

JohnTheGreek

X, CRF, as a necessity, is somewhat controversial. Many say CRF is a must on any DGR. Some Remington and Weatherby fans say "No Differanse". CRF means the bolt grabs the case and strips it out of the magazine and holds it all the while from seating in the chamber to ejection. There may be some exceptions but that is the basic concept. Push feed means just that. The cartridge is pushed into the chamber. The CRF people say "Many is the slip between the cup and the lip." The cartidge could be lost if you are reloading while running or are being held upside down and shaken by some lovely beast that you have had a disagreement with regarding whom will host whom for the evenings festivities. This might be inopportune for your pressing home your point in timely manner. You have likely seen both a CRF and a Push feed if you have been in any well stocked gun shop. CRF will be Winchester mod 70 (pre 64 or classic), Ruger MK II, CZ 550, or Mauser 98 or similar. The push feeds are Remington mod 700, Weatherby mk V, or WInchester post 64 and pre classic. Look up Mauser on the net and you will find a nice claw extractor at the bolt face. Look at a Remington and you will see the 3 rings of steel on the head of the Bolt. I prefer CRF but many use push feed and have no problems. You may have no problems with either kind, But if you have a problem while hunting DG, the stakes may be high. Good hunting. "D"

Controlled round feeding ( CRF )- I'll give it a shot but I don't claim to be a gunsmith. As i understand it, in a rifle with CRF the bolt "grabs" the round as it is stripped from the magazine and holds and controls it as it feeds into the barrell. Mauser is the classic CRF action and Winchesters with a pre-64 action are derived from the Mauser. The other type of action is a push round feed action. These have the bolt strip the round from the magazine and push it into the barrell. The advantage of CRF is that, because the round is controlled by the bolt, it is more reliable than Push Round feeding actions.
I think that for a PH the CRF vs PRF is relavant. For those of us who are clients and backed up by a PH it is less important. In my opinion, you should worry more about which rifle you shoot better, than what type of action it has. If you shoot a PRF ,say a Remmington, well, than I'd use that rather than trying to get comforable with a different kind of rifle.
I don't believe that the odds of a jam or the round falling out of the action are sufficiently large to worry about. Having said that my 375 is a pre 64 Winchester.

Thanks John, it would have to be alot under $5K!

DHunter...thanks for clearing that up. I am ashamed to say that I have never seen a pre-64 Model 70 or a CZ or a Mauser. But I do have experience with Rugers! I'm the most familiar with post 64 Win, Rem 700's, Rugers, and Brownings.

X

TerryR:

You and I must have been typing at the same time. Thanks for the additional info.

X

X, anyone who knows me will tell you I am among other things a rabbid believer in CRF bolt rifles for Dangerous game!

Is it possible to hunt DG with a pushfeed rifle? Absolutely! It has been done many times without mishap! Do I think it is a good idea? The answer to that is "NO"! IMO, it is a little like a person carrying a gun for protection for years without ever needing it, to protect himself, or anyone else! Did it hurt him to carry that gun?
NO it did not, but would it have hurt him to have needed it, and not have it? MOST LIKELY!
To my way of thinking, it costs little to have CRF, and if you only need it only once, then it would be nice to have it! My question is, if you only need it once, it was worth the price, because that one time may be the answer to if it will save your butt!

The Rem 700 is NOT CRF, and if you are going to hunt Buffalo with a 375 H&H, I'd reccomend a crf rifle! You may do as it suits you!

Ladies and Gentlemen,

From someone who is not a gunsmith, here is my simplified explanation of CRF v. Pushfeed. Here are some pictures:

Winchester on left - Remington on the right.


Another view.

On the Remington note the small lip on the inside, left side of the bolt face and the round plunger ejector on the inside, right side of the bolt face. The Remington pushes (but does not capture) a cartridge as the bolt is closed. The plunger ejector is spring loaded. Once the cartridge seats in the chamber, the lip of the extractor will snap over the rim of the cartridge. This will hold the cartridge as the bolt is moved to the rear and the plunger ejector will spring out - striking the cartridge and ejecting it.

On the Winchester, the bottom of the bolt face is open and there is a groove between the bolt face and the extractor and one between the bolt face and the opposite locking lug. As the bolt is closed, it strips a cartridge from the magazine and the rim of the cartridge slips up and is captured by the groove between the bolt face and the extractor and locking lug.


Bottom view.


At the middle of the picture (below) is the ejector. As the bolt moves back. The ejector slides through the slot in the bolt face (see picture above) and strikes the bottom of the cartridge, ejecting it. The faster you pull the bolt back, the further the cartridge will eject (within limits).


Regards,

Terry

[ 05-06-2003, 01:33: Message edited by: T.Carr ]

x-caliber
While I would rather have my 450/400 3 1/4" or my 450 No2 for buff I would not hesitate to shoot one with my 9.3x74R if that is the rifle I was carrying at the time. I will agree with JohnThe Greek, my 9.3 is a Chapuis double with a scope in a QD mount. It has become my favorite rifle under 40 cal. The 9.3x74R is not too much gun for deer[or for the shooter of the deer] and is entirely adequate for any game short of buff. It is a little light for buff, hippo, and elephant IMHO but with solids will get the job done. Many of the old African books mention the effectiveness of such ctgs as the 400/350, 360 No2 etc., and the 9.3x74R is equal to them. Plus the Chapuis [with iron sights] only weighs 7 1/4 lbs and I find the recoil less than a 300mag or a 375 H&H by far. I really like the rifle and the calibre.

In my opinion, recommending any of the 9.3 rifles to an American is a big mistake and a serious misservice to that shooter, unless the one to whom you are recommending it is both a handloader and interested in having a somewhat exotic caliber that will require extra work to get bullets and brass for it. There is a limited selection of bullets in 9.3 diameter available, and then probably only from mail-order or Internet suppliers. Brass for any of the 9.3 calibers is even less widely available, and factory ammunition essentially nonexistent.

The .375 H&H is a much better choice, as Winchester, Remington, and Federal all supply factory loads for it.

X-caliber

You really have to witness a CRF to truly appreciate it.
The cartridge is always "controlled" by two opposing surfaces. It rests between the follower and feed rails. As it is pushed forward, it leaves the confines of the magazine and the rim slides up between the boltface and the extractor, where it held in place under tension until you either push it into the chamber or pull it back against the ejector.
It is an ingenious design that dates back to the earliest bolt action rifles. Once you witness the beauty of it, you will wonder why anyone would want to consider anything else.

[ 05-06-2003, 09:10: Message edited by: KurtC ]

What I want to know is, why are you searching for the minimum caliber?

A CZ550 in 416 Rigby is a much better choice, IMO, than an H&H, if you're setting out to hunt Buff.
Or a Model 70 Winchester in 416 Rem if you'd rather.

My advice then would be to get a good .338 now and use until you go to Africa. At that time, buy a matching .416 and you're set for anything.

Let's not forget the 45-70!!!!

I am a rabid CFR user, I would not consider anything else, and that comes from my personal experiences in life through observation and personal experience with push feeds. It is however only my opinnion and many whom I respect have and recommend the use a pushfeed, but even they seem to use CFR these days.

I do not see it as a disservice to recommend any caliber to anyone, if that is ones opinnion, however I do agree that one should state the up and down side of chooseing a caliber, be it a 9.3x62, a wildcat round, or any caliber for that matter...

Howsomever, one could hardly answer the question in this particular case without mentioning the 9.3x62 as .366 is the minimum caliber that can be used in Zimbabwe for instance and that was the question.

From what the original poster has stated, there is really only ONE logical choice for him at this point in time...375H&H. No other cartridge can even pretend to be as versatile or as widely available. Same for ammo, components or rifle makers that chamber it.

Yup. I agree. Now that I see where you're coming from (wanting a 'true buff gun'), if it were me I'd be thinking .375 H&H.
That said, I think there's some real sense behind Art S's idea. You could do worse than a .338 cal and a .416, so you'd be better off in the end (i.e., really going to Africa) if you took care of the low end - something you could actually use now - and then come time get your "heavy" once you really dial in what you're looking for.

T.Carr,

Great pictures! I'm sure if you were not familiar with CRF, those shots made it easy to see the difference between the two systems.

Roger QSL

x-caliber
Here is a "compromise" that might keep everyone on this forum happy and be a good choice for you, and allow you to have a "real" big bore.
I base this ballistic data from using a 416 RM a 416 WbyM and a 450/400 3 1/4" double.
Get your self a CRF in 416 Remington Mag. When you hunt Bear, Moose, etc use 400gr. bullets at 2125fps to @ 2400fps, depending on how much recoil you wish to tolerate[I do not think the animals will ever know the difference]. For all lesser game use a 300gr. bullet at @ 2300fps. You still have more power than a 405 Win, lower recoil, good trajectory and it will put down game like the Hammer of Thor. I think a 400 at @2150 has less recoil than a 375 H&H.
I would have the rifle set up with Iron sights and a scope in QD mounts.
Just a thought.