I have had two PHs that have worked in Tanzania tell me that chasing down animals with 4 x 4 vehicles is a common practice in Tanzania. The people doing it were some very well known Safari Company's. In your experiences, is there any truth to this?

465H&H

I have only seen John Wayne do it in Hatari.

465 H&H

I have not heard of it in Tanzania but I do remember an appy PH in Zim that told me that you could not shoot a wildebeest anyother way except by using the vehicle. On that property where they chased them daily it probably was the only way to get one.

Mark

In Zimbabwe once we chased some funny looking jack rabbit like animals that come out at night. We would ride into a group of them then narrow it to one and get close and the PH's would get out and run it down and catch it by hand. Seems it's regular practice there among the young people. I know it doesn't sound like much but it was absolutely hilarious to watch. They used spotlights and it looked like an old Keystone Cops movie chase. I don't know when I have laughed so much.

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
In Zimbabwe once we chased some funny looking jack rabbit like animals that come out at night. We would ride into a group of them then narrow it to one and get close and the PH's would get out and run it down and catch it by hand. Seems it's regular practice there among the young people. I know it doesn't sound like much but it was absolutely hilarious to watch. They used spotlights and it looked like an old Keystone Cops movie chase. I don't know when I have laughed so much.

Springhares!

465H&H

Yes, springhares indeed! You can outrun them, but they have a better turning circle than most humans. Trying to catch them can provide some light entertainment, especially for others in the back of the truck. What adds to the humour, is when the spotlight is focused on the departing springhare, it leaves the athlete to negotiate ant-bear holes, rocks, and thorn scrub by echolocation!!

We "raced/chased" impala on the Chirisa airstrip several times...they beat the land cruiser every time!

Springhares was,indeed, what I was trying to describe. It was definitely the most hilarious thing that happened on ANY of my safaris. Some PH'swere better at catching than others. NONE were ever hurt,the Springhares that is,can't say the same for the PH's.

chasing this guy across the kalahari one night was probably the most i have ever laughed in my life( of course myself, the appy PH pictured and the PH had knocked back a few sundowners prior to the "hunt"). i did learn that a Surefire M6 will definitely blind whatever it hits for a brief period.

I can only speak to block r2 in the selous but I don't see how you chase down anything.
The roads aren't all that good for anything for speed and all an animal would have to do is jump 10 feet off the road and they are gone.

here's a pic of a typical road

Yes it is common practice and occurs much more often then one hears about. That and shooting from the vehicle occur regularly......... unfortunately!

Bwanamich, I will need a definition of "common practice" before I can understand your comment.

I have only hunted in the southern Selous and, as has been said, even if one wanted to do such a despicable thing, i.e., run down an animal in a 4x4, in the southern Selous it would be utterly impossible.

So, if you can say while being discreet, where does this happen and how widespread is it, truly?

MR,
There are probably over 200 Ph's hunting in TZ at any one time during the peak season. I dare guess that another 10% "act" as PH's even though they are NOT licensed. If one speaks swahili to the gun bearers and game scouts and other camp staff around the country you will hear that it is far more often done then anyone would think. Selous, Central, Western, Northern Tanzania.

I guess the definition of "chasing" might make a difference here What I include in all this is the act of "diesel stalking" which I took was the meaning of the original poster

If you hunt in miombo woodlands I don't see how animal chasing is possible. I do think there is or could be shooting from vehicles.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
MR,
I guess the definition of "chasing" might make a difference here What I include in all this is the act of "diesel stalking" which I took was the meaning of the original poster

"Diesel stalking" = a slow truck mounted prowl through the bush and then shooting off the truck. I think this is done fairly frequently everywhere, not only in Tanz.

A lazy and to me unethical way to kill things, surely no hunting is involved.

We saw a SA hunter and SA PH, with an indigeounous Zim PH along to make the SA PH legal, doing it in Nyakasanga. But shooting off the truck is illegal in Zim Parks concessions, I am told. Game scout was along but didn't seem to care.

They had a pile of impala in the truck. IIRC the quota for impala for one of the Nyakasanga camps was four ewes and four rams. They were close to filling their quota that morning.

Worst part is, diesel stalkers are made more successful - if dead critters are the only measure of success - by those who hunt ethically; game becomes accustomed to vehicles since great majority of time the vehicle and occupants pose no threat.

It is easy to tell if you are in an area where diesle stalking has been taking place - all the game runs from the truck.

JPK

When I was in RSA in August this subject came up around the table one night. There is a guy about 10km down the road from Harry Claassens camp near Vorstershoop who does this with mostly Kudu and Oryx but basicly any plains game. He has an old Nissan truck and he runs them down and grabs them by the horns.He pulls them up to the driver's door and when he has a good hold the Black helper in the back grabs them by the tail they get them stopped. Then the Black guy puts a rope on them. He sells them to game ranches. He has done over 1000 head of Kudu and Oryx.
The catch guy says that the Kudu are the nastiest to deal with. "They are mean". He thinks Oryx are relatively easy.
The Kalahari no plain either. It is full of holes that will break a truck axle. I don't know how he does it but he does, if some very reliable witnesses are to be believed.
They had a client who couldn't believe the story so Harry arranged for him to go along on a catch. They took off across the Kalahari in pursuit of a Kudu and it took 34 sec to catch it. This was 34 sec to long for the client because he was screaming to get out. "This guy is crazy" seemed to be the predominant cry.
The same guy was talked into entering a national Rallye with some ranked international drivers that they held near there a few years ago. He tuned his old truck up and won 5 of 5 classes. When the day was over the truck was sitting and smoking but the amateur won the money. The pro drivers wanted to know what was under the hood but all he would as was say was "Just what Nissan put there".

BTW, should add that I find diesel stalking to be unethical for a fully physically capable hunter, but that opinion changes 180* when the hunter is overcoming some physical challenges.

JPK

The reports I had was that the chasseing they were referring to occurred out on the open plains. It included running eland down to a standstill and then looking it over. If it was big enough the client would then shoot it. They both said that the PHs were rated by the Outfitter on how big an animal the PHG got for his clients.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Duc:
When I was in RSA in August this subject came up around the table one night. There is a guy about 10km down the road from Harry Claassens camp near Vorstershoop who does this with mostly Kudu and Oryx but basicly any plains game. He has an old Nissan truck and he runs them down and grabs them by the horns.He pulls them up to the driver's door and when he has a good hold the Black helper in the back grabs them by the tail they get them stopped. Then the Black guy puts a rope on them. He sells them to game ranches. He has done over 1000 head of Kudu and Oryx.
The catch guy says that the Kudu are the nastiest to deal with. "They are mean". He thinks Oryx are relatively easy.
The Kalahari no plain either. It is full of holes that will break a truck axle. I don't know how he does it but he does, if some very reliable witnesses are to be believed.
They had a client who couldn't believe the story so Harry arranged for him to go along on a catch. They took off across the Kalahari in pursuit of a Kudu and it took 34 sec to catch it. This was 34 sec to long for the client because he was screaming to get out. "This guy is crazy" seemed to be the predominant cry.
The same guy was talked into entering a national Rallye with some ranked international drivers that they held near there a few years ago. He tuned his old truck up and won 5 of 5 classes. When the day was over the truck was sitting and smoking but the amateur won the money. The pro drivers wanted to know what was under the hood but all he would as was say was "Just what Nissan put there".

Great Post!

I can only imagine the strength it takes to hold a Kudu by the horns and stop him!

Dr Duc
The animal is often so stressed by the incident and having been caught that it basically is in a state of shock and stops fighting. Its like the way the fight goes out of an animal when overwhelmed by lions etc. Still no easy task, and in my opinion reprehensible considering the modern alternatives, but possible none the less.

I'm familiar with whittail deer and neurogenic shock that occurs whne they are trapped in a fence corner. Deer collapse and die. Apparently African game is more resiliant.
I make no judgement on the practice. Medically speaking if they are going to be caught it maybe less dangerous than darting with some of the drugs used.

Nothing would surprise me these days but I can see where under "certain circumstances" it would be OK...

If you had a wounded animal from a snare or festered wound,that you ran across, then running it down would be a mission of mercy, get it over with and continue your hunt...I know of this happening one time with a wounded Lioness in the high grass and she still about ate everyone up since she jumped in the truck.

I have heard of Leopard hunts conducted in such a mannor with dogs and people on the ground and some shooter in the back of the truck..I have not witnessed this but I know it is fairly well accepted method in high grass on tracking hunts.

In many cases shooting camp meat from the truck is very common, it's part of the business of running a safari camp and its done and the hunt continues..I have been sent out to shoot Impala or Hartebeest while clients hunt and that is done the easy way, from the truck..I have no problem with it..Culling is also done from the truck and mostly at night..

Also, I have no problem with spot and stalk, it is a very common practice and 99% of the hunts are conducted as such in the large concessions where game is scattered over miles of territory as big as some states..

I suspect most of what you have heard is the above...If one wants to walk out of a Selous camp and hunt all day that's up to him and the PH will do it, but your chances of success may be less than none, many times you must drive until you see them or can track them.

This kind of retoric has a way of getting blown out of porportion in a hurry by folks that have hunted litte and live in a pre concieved world...

Remember its your safari and you call the shots so if it happens then its YOUR fault for allowing it.

If your phyically able then you should hunt your game, take the time out in life to learn to shoot and practice all the ethics that you believe to be reasonable and by all means abide by the law..

quote:

I dare guess that another 10% "act" as PH's even though they are NOT licensed.

I can confirm this but 10% is mayby to less.

Seloushunter